Tuesday, July 27, 2010

Chapter on the Boers of the late 19th cent.

The following is from the book: Oom Paul' People by an American author & newspaper correspondent named Howard C Hillegas. This chapter was rather fair to the Boers & their then struggle to remain independent within their republics during the second Anglo-Boer War & goes into some detail describing the life of the average Boer. The opening line of this chapter was eerily prescient as the Boer people are to this day - over a hundred years later - still struggling to "outlive" the slander & distortion from the British propaganda.

The Boers of Today. [ circa 1900 ]

THE wholesale slander and misrepresentation with which the Boers of South Africa have been pursued can not be outlived by them in a hundred years. It originated when the British forces took possession of the Cape of Good Hope, and it has continued with unabated vigour ever since. Recently the chief writers of fiction have been prominent Englishmen, who, on hunting expeditions or rapid tours through the country, saw the object of their venom from car windows or in the less favourable environments of a trackless veldt.

In earlier days the outside world gleaned its knowledge of the Boers from certain British statesmen, who, by grace of Downing Street, controlled the country's colonial policy, and consequently felt obliged to conjure up weird descriptions of their far-distant subjects in order [89] to make the application of certain harsh policies appear more applicable and necessary. Missionaries to South Africa, traders, and, not least of all, speculators, all found it convenient to traduce the Boers to the people in England, and the object in almost every case was the attainment of some personal end. Had there been any variety in the complaints, there might have been reason to suppose they were justifiable, but the similarity of the reports led to the conclusion that the British in South Africa were conducting the campaign of misrepresentation for the single purpose of arousing the enmity of the home people against the Boers. The unbiased reports were generally of such a nature that they were drowned by the roar of the malicious ones, and, instead of creating a better popular opinion of the race, only assisted in stirring the opposition to greater flights of fancy.

American interests in South Africa having been so infinitesimal until the last decade, our own knowledge of the country and its people naturally was of the same proportions. When Americans learned anything concerning South [90] Africa or the Boers it came by way of London, which had vaster interests in the country, and should have been able to give exact information. But, like other colonial information, it was discoloured with London additions, and the result was that American views of the Boers tallied with those of the Englishman.

Among the more prominent Englishmen who have recently studied the Boers from a car window, and have given the world the benefit of their opinions, is a man who has declared that the Boer blocked the way in South Africa, and must go. Among other declarations with which this usually well-informed writer has taken up the cudgel in behalf of his friend Mr. Rhodes, he has called the Boers "utterly detestable," "guilty of indecencies and family immorality," and even so "benighted and uncivilized " as to preclude the possibility of writing about them. All this he is reported to have said about a race that has been lauded beyond measure by the editors of every country in the world except those under the English flag. The real cause of it all is found in the Boers' disposition to carry their own burdens, and [91] their disinclination to allow England to be their keeper. Their opinions of justice and right were formed years ago in Cape Colony, and so long as their fighting ability has not been proved in a negative manner, so long will the Boers be reviled by the covetous Englishmen of South Africa and their friends.

The Boer of to-day is a man who loves solitude above all things. He and his ancestors have enjoyed that chief product of South Africa for so many generations that it is his greatest delight to be alone. The nomadic spirit of the early settler courses in his veins, and will not be eradicated though cities be built up all around him and railroads hem him in on all sides.

He loves to be out on the veldt, where nothing but the tall grass obstructs his view of the horizon, and his happiness is complete when, gun in hand, he can stalk the buck or raise the covey on soil never upturned by the share of a plough. The real Boer is a real son of the soil. It is his natural environment, and he chafes when he is compelled to go where there [92] are more than a dozen dwellings in the same square mile of area.

The pastoral life he and his ancestors have been leading has endowed him with a happy-go-lucky disposition. Some call him lazy and sluggish because he has plenty of time at his disposal and "counts ten" before acting. Others might call that disposition a realization of his necessities, and his chosen method of providing for them.

The watching of herds of cattle and flocks of sheep has since biblical times been considered an easier business than the digging of minerals or the manufacture of iron, and the Boer has realized that many years ago. He has also realized the utter uselessness of digging for minerals and the manufacture of iron when the products of either were valueless at a distance of a thousand miles from the nearest market. Taking these facts in consideration, the Boer has done what other less nomadic people have done. He has improved the opportunities which lay before him, and has allowed the others to pass untouched.

[93] The Boers are not an agricultural people, because the nature of the country affords no encouragement for the following of that pursuit. The great heat of the summer removes rivers in a week and leaves rivulets hardly big enough to quench the thirst of the cattle. Irrigation is out of the question, as the great rivers are too far distant and the country too level to warrant the building of artificial waterways. Taking all things into consideration, there is nothing for a Boer to do but raise cattle and sheep, and he may regard himself particularly fortunate at the end of each year if drought and disease have not carried away one half of this wealth.

The Boer's habits and mode of life are similar to those of the American ranchman, and in reality there is not much difference between the two except that the latter is not so far removed from civilization. The Boer likes to be out of the sight of the smoke of his neighbour's house, and to live fifteen or twenty miles from another dwelling is a matter of satisfaction rather than regret to him. The patriarchal custom of the people provides against the lack [94] of companionship which naturally would follow this custom.

When a Boer's children marry they settle within a short distance of the original family homestead; generally several hundred yards distant. In this way, in a few years, a small village is formed on the family estates, which may consist of from five hundred to ten thousand acres of uninclosed grazing ground. Every son when he marries is entitled to a share of the estate, which he is supposed to use for the support of himself and his family, and in that way the various estates grow smaller each generation. When an estate grows too small to support the owner, he "treks" to another part of the country, and receives from the state such an amount of territory as he may require.

Boer houses, as a rule, are situated a long distance away from the tracks of the transport wagons, in order that passing infected animals may not introduce disease into the flocks and herds of the farmer. Strangers are seldom seen as a result of this isolation, and news from the outer world does not reach the Boers unless [95] they travel to the towns to make the annual purchases of necessaries.

Their chief recreation is the shooting of game, which abounds in almost all parts of the country. Besides being their recreation, it is also their duty, for it is much cheaper to kill a buck and use it to supply the family larder than to kill an ox or a sheep for the same purpose. It is seldom that a Boer misses his aim, be the target a deer or an Englishman, and he has ample time to become proficient in the use of the rifle. His gun is his constant companion on the veldt and at his home, and the long alliance has resulted in earning for him the distinction of being the best marksman and the best irregular soldier in the world. The Boer is not a sportsman in the American sense of the word. He is a hunter, pure and simple, and finds no delight in following the Englishman's example of spending many weeks in the Zambezi forests or the dangerous Kalahari Desert, and returning with a giraffe tail and a few horns and feathers as trophies of the chase. He hunts because he needs meat for his family and leather for sjam-bok whips with [96] which to drive his cattle, and not because it gives him personal gratification to be able to demonstrate his supreme skill in the tracking of game.

The dress of the Boer is of the roughest description and material, and suited to his occupation. Corduroy and flannel for the body, a wide-brimmed felt hat for the head, and soft leather-soled boots fitted for walking on the grass, complete the regulation Boer costume, which is picturesque as well as serviceable. The clothing, which is generally made by the Boer's vrouw, or wife, makes no pretension of fit or style, and is quite satisfactory to the wearer if it clings to the body. In most instances it is built on plans made and approved by the Voortrekkers of 1835, and quite satisfactory to the present Boers, their sons, and grandsons.

Physically, the Boers are the equals, if not the superiors, of their old-time enemy, the Zulus. It would be difficult to find anywhere an entire race of such physical giants as the Boers of the Transvaal and the Orange Free State. The roving existence, the life in the open air, and the freedom from disturbing [97] cares have combined to make of the Boers a race that is almost physically perfect. If an average height of all the full-grown males in the country were taken, it would be found to be not less than six feet two inches, and probably more. Their physique, notwithstanding their comparatively idle mode of living, is magnificently developed.

The action of the almost abnormally developed muscles of the legs and arms, discernible through their closely fitting garments, gives an idea of the remarkable powers of endurance which the Boers have displayed on many occasions when engaged in native and other campaigns. They can withstand almost any amount of physical pain and discomfort, and can live for a remarkably long time on the smallest quantity of food. It is a matter of common knowledge that a Boer can subsist on a five-pound slice of "biltong"—beef that has been dried in the sun until it is almost as hard as stone—for from ten to fifteen days without suffering any pangs of hunger. In times of war, "biltong" is the principal item in the army rations, and in peace, when he is follow- [98] ing his flocks, it also is the Boer shepherd's chief article of diet.

The religion of the Boers is one of their greatest characteristics, and one that can hardly be understood when it is taken into consideration that they have been separated for almost two hundred years from the refining influences of a higher civilization. The simple faith in a Supreme Being, which the original emigrants from Europe carried to South Africa, has been handed down from one generation to another, and in two centuries of fighting, trekking, and ranching has lost none of its pristine depth and fervour.

[Illustration]

KIRK STREET, PRETORIA, WITH THE STATE CHURCH IN THE DISTANCE.

With the Boer his religion is his first and uppermost thought. The Old Testament is the pattern which he strives to follow. The father of the family reads from its pages every day, and from it he formulates his ideas of right and wrong as they are to be applied to the work of the day. Whether he wishes to exchange cattle with his neighbour or give his daughter in marriage to a neighbour's son, he consults the Testament, and finds therein the advice that is applicable to the situation. He [99] reads nothing but the Bible, and consequently his belief in its teachings is indestructible and supreme.

His religious temperament is portrayed in almost every sentence he utters, and his repetition of biblical parables and sayings is a custom which so impresses itself upon the mind of the stranger that it is but natural that those who are unacquainted with the Boer should declare it a sure sign of his hypocrisy. He does not quote Scripture merely to impress upon the mind of his hearer the fact that he is a devout Christian, but does it for the same reasons that a sailor speaks the language of the sea-farer.

The Boer is a low churchman among low churchmen. He abhors anything that has the slightest tendency toward show or outward signs of display in religious worship. He is simple in his other habits, and in his religious observances he is almost primitively simple. To him the wearing of gorgeous raiment, special attitudes, musical accompaniment to hymns, and special demonstrations are the rankest sacrilege. Of the nine legal holidays in the Trans- [100] vaal, five—Good Friday, Easter Monday, Ascension Day, Whit Monday, and Christmas—are Church festival days, and are strictly observed by every Boer in the country.

The Dutch Reformed Church has been the state Church since 1835, when the Boers commenced emigrating from Cape Colony. The "trekkers" had no regularly ordained ministers, but depended upon the elders for their religious training, as well as for leadership in all temporal affairs. One of the first clergymen to preach to the Boers was an American, the Rev. Daniel Lindley, who was one of the earliest missionaries ever sent to South Africa. The state controls the Church, and, conversely, the Church controls the state, for it is necessary for a man to become a factor in religious affairs before he can become of any political importance. As a result of this custom, the politicians are necessarily the most active church members.

The Hervormde Dopper branch of the Dutch Reformed Church is the result of a disagreement in 1883 with the Gereformeerde branch over the singing of hymns during a [101] religious service. The Doppers, led by Paul Kruger, peaceably withdrew, and started a congregation of their own when the more progressive faction insisted on singing hymns, which the Doppers declared was extremely worldly.

Since then the two chief political parties are practically based on the differences in religion. The Progressive party is composed of those who sing hymns, and the members of the Conservative party are those who are more Calvinistic in their tendencies. As the Conservatives have been in power for the last decade, it follows that the majority of the Boers are opposed to the singing of hymns in church. The greatest festival in the Boer calendar is that of Nachtmaal, or Communion, which is generally held in Pretoria the latter part of the year.

The majority of the Boers living in remote parts of the country, where established congregations or churches are an impossibility, it behooves every Boer to journey to the capital once a year to partake of communion. Pretoria then becomes the Mecca of all Boers, and [102] the pretty little town is filled to overflowing with pilgrims and their "trekking" wagons and cattle. Those who live in remote parts of the country are obliged to start several weeks before the Nachtmaal in order to be there at the appointed time, and the whole journey to and fro in many instances requires six weeks' time. When they reach Pretoria they bivouac in the open square surrounding the old brick church in the centre of the town, and spend almost all their time in the church. It is one of the grandest scenes in South Africa to observe the pilgrims camping in the open square under the shade of the patriarchal church, which to them is the most sacred edifice in the world.

The home life of the Boers is as distinctive a feature of these rough, simple peoples as is their deep religious enthusiasm. If there is anything that his falsifiers have attacked, it is the Boer's home life, and those who have had the opportunity to study it will vouch that none more admirable exists anywhere. The Boer heart is filled with an intense feeling of family affection. He loves his wife and chil- [103] dren above all things, and he is never too busy to eulogize them. He will allow his flocks to wander a mile away while he relates a trifling incident of family life, and he would rather miss an hour's sleep than not take advantage of an opportunity to talk on domestic topics.

He does not gossip, because he sees his neighbours too rarely for that, but he will lay before you the detailed history and distinctive features of every one of his ancestors, relations, and descendants. He is hospitable to a degree that is astonishing, and he will give to a stranger the best room in the house, the use of his best horse, and his finest food. Naturally he will not give an effusive welcome to an Englishman, because he is the natural enemy of the Boer, but to strangers of other nationalities he opens his heart and house.

The programme of the Boer's day is hardly ever marred by any changes. He rises with the sun, and works among the sheep and cattle until breakfast. There at the table he meets his family and conducts the family worship. If the parents of the married couple are pres- [104] ent, they receive the best seats at the table, and are treated with great reverence.

After breakfast he makes his plans for the day's work, which may consist of a forward "trek" or a hunting trip. He attends to the little plot of cultivated ground, which provides all the vegetables and grain for the table, and spends the remainder of the day in attending to the cattle and sheep. Toward night he gathers his family around him, and reads to them selected chapters from the Bible. From the same book he teaches his children to read until twilight is ended, whereupon the Boer's day is ended, and he seeks his bed.

During the dry season the programme varies only as far as his place of abode is concerned. With the arrival of that season the Boer closes his house and becomes a wanderer in pursuit of water. The sheep and cattle are driven to the rivers, and the family follows in big transport wagons, not unlike the American prairie-schooner, propelled by eight spans of oxen. The family moves from place to place as the necessity for new pasturage arises. With the approach of the wet season the nomads [105] prepare for the return to the deserted homestead, and, as soon as the first rain has fallen and the grass has changed the colour of the landscape, the Boer and his vast herds are homeward bound.

The Boer homestead is as unpretentious as its owner. Generally it is a low, one-story stone structure, with a steep tile roof and a small annex in the rear, which is used as a kitchen. The door is on a level with the ground, and four windows afford all the light that is required in the four square rooms in the interior. A dining room and three bedrooms suffice for a family, however large. The floors are of hardened clay, liberally coated with manure, which is designed to ward off the pestiferous insects that swarm over the plains.

The house is usually situated in a valley and close to a stream, and, in rare instances, is sheltered by a few trees that have been brought from the coast country. Native trees are such a rarity that the traveller may go five hundred miles without seeing a single specimen. The Boer vrouw feels no need of firewood, however, for her ancestors taught her to cook her [106] meals over a fire of the dry product of the cattle-decked plains.

Personal uncleanliness is one of the great failings that has been attributed to the Boer, but when it is taken into consideration that water is a priceless possession on the plains of South Africa, no further explanation is needed. The canard that the Boers go to bed without undressing is as absurd as the one of like origin that an entire family sleeps in one bed. Yet these fictions constantly appear, and frequently over the names of persons who have penetrated into South Africa no farther than Cape Town.

The Boer here depicted is the representative Boer—the one who shoulders his rifle and fights for his country; the one who watches his cattle on the plains and pays his taxes; the one who tries to improve his condition, and takes advantage of every opportunity for advancement that is offered. There is a worthless Boer, as there is a worthless Englishman, a worthless German, and a worthless American, but he is so far in the minority that he need not be analyzed.

[107] There is, however, a Boer who lives in the towns and cities, and he compares favourably with other men of South African birth. He has had the advantage of better schools, and can speak one or more languages besides his own. He is not so nomadic in his tendencies as his rural countryman, and he has absorbed more of the modernisms. He can conduct a philosophic argument, and his wife and daughters can play the piano. If he is wealthy, his son is a student at a European university and his daughter flirting on the beach at Durban or attending a ladies' seminary at Bloemfontein or Grahamstown.

He is as progressive as any white man cares to be under that generous South African sun, and when it comes to driving a bargain he is a match for any of the money sharks of Johannesburg. For the youthful Boer who reaches the city directly from the country, without any trade or profession, the prospects are gloomy. He is at a great disadvantage when put into competition with almost any class of residents. The occupations to which he can turn are few, and these have been still further restricted in [108] late years by the destruction of cattle by the rinderpest and the substitution of railways for road transport. His lack of education unfits him for most of the openings provided in such a city as Johannesburg, even when business is at its highest tide, and a small increase in the tension of business brings him to absolute want.

The Boer of to-day is a creature of circumstance. He is outstripped because he has had no opportunities for development. Driven from Cape Colony, where he was rapidly developing a national character, he was compelled to wander into lands that offered no opportunities of any description. He has been cut off for almost a hundred years from an older and more energetic civilization, and even from his neighbours; it is no wonder that he is a century behind the van. No other civilized race on earth has been handicapped in such a manner, and if there had been one it is a matter for conjecture whether it would have held its own, as the Boer has done, or whether it would have fallen to the level of the savage.

Had the Boer Voortrekkers been fortunate [109] enough to settle in a fertile country bordering on the sea, where they might have had communication with the outer world, their descendants would undoubtedly to-day be growing cane and wheat instead of herding cattle and driving transport wagons. Their love of freedom could not have been greater under those circumstances, but they might have averted the conditions which now threaten to erase their nation from the face of the earth.

Source: Oom Paul's People. by Howard C Hillegas. Published in 1900. Chapter four.

Closing comment. I was asked back in February for a good book on the Boers & I pointed out this fine book & this chapter in particular.




103 Opinion(s):

Trey Cruz said...

"With the Boer, his religion is his first and uppermost thought...."
When you surrender your faith in Christ, you lose everything.
If the Boer would save himself, let him first look to the state of his immortal soul.

Yves F. said...

The problem with the "in Christ" is that this sounds very New Bornish, very Modern, very American.

Those Boers believed in Old Fashioned Old Testament realities: God the Father, patriarchal, with solid familes, lots of children, weapons to fend off the heathens, etc.

I don't think we are speaking about the same thing. The new belief system is undermining the survival of Afrikaners as a group.

Luc D. said...

Very interesting, baie dankie.

The Rooster said...

What's interesting to me is that all the apologies that are made for the boers' "laziness and lack of productivity" are the very same that "liberals" make for the blacks.

The Rooster said...

I mean it's all there : nearly only 100 years ago they were living in stone houses, with manure floors herding cattle and hunting for a living. Simple supersticious people with no education. Why ? They were seperated from the rest of western civilisation. Most far less advanaced than most black South Africans today.

Why are you lot so willingly to see "cause and effect" for the boers but not for black South Africans ?

Anonymous said...

"Had the Boer Voortrekkers been fortunate [109] enough to settle in a fertile country bordering on the sea, where they might have had communication with the outer world, their descendants would undoubtedly to-day be growing cane and wheat instead of herding cattle and driving transport wagons."

"He" did settle Natal, 'twixt Berg and Beach, but the British annexed the Republic just six years after its inception, for the very fear that the Boer would be able to deal with other Nations without being surrounded by the Brits. Two biggest mistakes of the Boer were:
1. not mounting a full scale defence of the Republic
2. not joining with the Zulu, Swazi and Matabele Kings when they approached Pretorius to lead them in driving the British from the Eastern Half of South Africa!

The Boer is just too decent for his own good! Only evil wins in this world... until God decides enough is enough!

Common Sense

Trey Cruz said...

re: Yves F...........
Dude;
I'm Eastern Orthodox.
Christianity does not get any more old fashioned than that.

Islandshark said...

Now we know the chicken has never set foot on a farm either. Lazy Boers?

You may as well be dreaming about hard-working ANC govt officials...

Ron. said...

Rooster. In a round about way you actually make the case for the pro western civilization argument when one would think that you should be praising the formerly simpler & rustic lifestyle of the average Boer of the era. What I find interesting is that folks like you often do not recognize them as an indigenous people while recognizing most of their neighbours as such.

Great points Anon & Islandshark.

Yves F. The term Afrikaner itself undermines the survival of the Boer people as a group as the term Afrikaner was a political construct aimed at destroying the identity of the Boers & lumping them in with the larger formerly pro British & pro Colonial Afrikaans speaking population group whose elite [ political / financial / media etc. ] to this day work hard propagandizing AGAINST Boer self determination.

VI said...

Folks, where can we get the Vierkleur and Oranje vlag? Don't say ebay, because I have looked.

Islandshark said...

@ VI: You can get the Vierkleur from Boerevryheid in SA.

We found MrFlag online where they do them as well (but the proper stitched ones), including the old SA flag. The stitched ones aren't cheap, but they are proper grade material and will last a lifetime.

I won't bother with the budget flags at MrFlag - not good quality.

Islandshark said...

Mr Flag

Islandshark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Rooster said...

Rooster. In a round about way you actually make the case for the pro western civilization argument when one would think that you should be praising the formerly simpler & rustic lifestyle of the average Boer of the era. What I find interesting is that folks like you often do not recognize them as an indigenous people while recognizing most of their neighbours as such.

Great points Anon & Islandshark.

Yves F. The term Afrikaner itself undermines the survival of the Boer people as a group as the term Afrikaner was a political construct aimed at destroying the identity of the Boers & lumping them in with the larger formerly pro British & pro Colonial Afrikaans speaking population group whose elite [ political / financial / media etc. ] to this day work hard propagandizing AGAINST Boer self determination.

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Why are "boers" so precious about protecting their heritage ? What is good about being a boer ? What have they achieved ?

It's seems a boer is not defined by what he is , but rather what he isn't ie : A progressive modern person who tolerates others different to himself.

I will defend your right to keep and protect your culture of course, but you must relaise that everyone has a "culture" and their is fuck all special about yours. Once you get that in your skulls you will learn to tolerate other people.

The Rooster said...

There is fuck all special...that should read..

The Rooster said...

The sooner the "Boers" can get the hell over themselves the sooner they can join the modern world and start to value things like education over dumb concepts like bronze age religion.

Trey Cruz said...

Rooster: The Boer derives from a culture that 500 years ago economically dominated damn near half the civilized world; about the same time yours was running around naked, screwing monkeys and eating your children [not much has changed for you, has it ol' pal?].
Of course, you, being a product of politically correct, leftist education have never been exposed to history.
The documented failures of every Black governed nation has proven that the only thing africans are qualified to run is their mouths.

Islandshark said...

@ Trey: Brilliant, absolutely brilliant!!

Ron. said...

Looks like Rooster is promoting straw man arguments as usual. The right of people to survive does not rest with what they "achieved". Which incidentally is more than you will ever achieve. Furthermore you do not have to like a culture but should at least respect their inherent right to exist & to survive. What is "good about being a Boer"? I will quote Eddie von Maltitz when he rightly pointed out: " I believe that the Boer is indispensable to Africa". If the Boers & the farming sector in particular are ever eradicated then you will soon discover what was good about being a Boer.

A Boer is certainly defined by what he is: a descendent of the Trekboers who were shaped into a distinct people on the Cape frontier viewing themselves as Africans [ while your people were always accused of still viewing themselves as part of Britain ] & adopting a dialect of the homegrown language which developed on African soil. The Boers of course did tolerate people different from themselves which one of the reasons they eventually lost their republics. Now I am not advocating that they become intolerant but the point is that they certainly tolerated the the influx of British subjects & Bantu migrants [ which the British financiers brought in to work in their mines ] & even had an official arrangement with the Buys people of mixed race - so you can not just paint the Boers in a one dimensional light.

What the Boer people want is what any other ethnic / cultural group around the world is entitled under international law such as the right to preserve their culture & to self determination. Looks like you "need to get over yourself" because your straw man arguments & one dimensional assertions does not negate form the fact that the Boers are entitled to the same right of preservation & self determination that is afforded to other nations around the world.

Not important said...

Look at how the Boers play rugby then watch how the wogs here play soccer. As if that's not all, the Boers maintain one of the highest standards of rugby from a picking stock of less than 3 million whilst our wogs play like idiots from a picking stock of some 50 million. That's why a wog will always be just that, a wog. An overbred, spoilt rotten to-the-core creature who's on the permanent take.

The Rooster said...

Rooster: The Boer derives from a culture that 500 years ago economically dominated damn near half the civilized world; about the same time yours was running around naked, screwing monkeys and eating your children [not much has changed for you, has it ol' pal?].
Of course, you, being a product of politically correct, leftist education have never been exposed to history.
The documented failures of every Black governed nation has proven that the only thing africans are qualified to run is their mouths.

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Way to rewrite history. Not even 100 years ago they were an uneducated neo-hunter-gatherer society living in stone houses with dung floors worshiping a bronze age deity. Hardly the champions of civilisation now are they ?

The Rooster said...

Looks like Rooster is promoting straw man arguments as usual. The right of people to survive does not rest with what they "achieved". Which incidentally is more than you will ever achieve. Furthermore you do not have to like a culture but should at least respect their inherent right to exist & to survive. What is "good about being a Boer"? I will quote Eddie von Maltitz when he rightly pointed out: " I believe that the Boer is indispensable to Africa". If the Boers & the farming sector in particular are ever eradicated then you will soon discover what was good about being a Boer.


A Boer is certainly defined by what he is: a descendent of the Trekboers who were shaped into a distinct people on the Cape frontier viewing themselves as Africans [ while your people were always accused of still viewing themselves as part of Britain ] & adopting a dialect of the homegrown language which developed on African soil. The Boers of course did tolerate people different from themselves which one of the reasons they eventually lost their republics. Now I am not advocating that they become intolerant but the point is that they certainly tolerated the the influx of British subjects & Bantu migrants [ which the British financiers brought in to work in their mines ] & even had an official arrangement with the Buys people of mixed race - so you can not just paint the Boers in a one dimensional light.
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What's wrong with viewing yourself as a South African ? Surely your allegience should lie with the people with whom you share a country, judicial system, government and shared destiny ? When you're happy when the majority of your country sucumbs to some failure of tragedy it's time to "get up and trek ferreira".

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What the Boer people want is what any other ethnic / cultural group around the world is entitled under international law such as the right to preserve their culture & to self determination. Looks like you "need to get over yourself" because your straw man arguments & one dimensional assertions does not negate form the fact that the Boers are entitled to the same right of preservation & self determination that is afforded to other nations around the world.

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Give this cry baby a tissue ! Who the fuck is trying to eradicate the boer and his culture ? This is a neurotic fucking fantasy no doubt bred by the projection of how you think black people should feel given what fucking assholes you were to them for the last century. the government has Afrikaans as an official language, it's done nothing to stop all Afrikaans schools or universities, if anything there's been zero to fuck all change in most Afrikaners over a certain age in this country. Crap clothes and crap music to dance craply to galore for your average boer to revel in !

The younger generation have made significant strides however and if you follow the Afrikaans rock music scence the rebellion against the "swart gevaar" ballies is delightful ! They reject being a "boer" in favour of being a child of the world. And that if you ask me is a good thing....for anyone !

The Rooster said...

Look at how the Boers play rugby then watch how the wogs here play soccer. As if that's not all, the Boers maintain one of the highest standards of rugby from a picking stock of less than 3 million whilst our wogs play like idiots from a picking stock of some 50 million. That's why a wog will always be just that, a wog. An overbred, spoilt rotten to-the-core creature who's on the permanent take.
--------------

I can ehar you breathing through your mouth from here.

The Rooster said...

Ron , what a fucking drama queen. No one is trying to "eradicate" the boers and their culture. That's pure projection of perhaps what you think the blacks people should feel , based on knowing what you ballies did to them in the army. Ironic you lot go on about white guilt when you're so deeply repressing your own.

In relaity the "boere" are carrying on the same as ever with their kak music and dancing and bronxe age views of the world. Except some in the younger generation who reject what it means to be a "boer" in favour of becomming a child of the world. Something I welcome.

In a way I admit I do think a world where less people want to see themselves as boers is a good thing. The same way I think the less people want to see themselves as anything other than just another shitty person with the same shitty flaws as anyone else.

Angulus Calx said...

The Rooster man is making a lot of noise about “culture” either black African or “Boer” culture.

Wonder what his “culture” is?

Fool.

I don’t like him……..

Islandshark said...

@ Ron: Don't even bother with the chicken - this delusional anti-white liberal thinks the continued slaughter of white farmers in South Africa is a hoax.

You have to accept that this is the type of person who still thinks Obama is a great president, Zuma is innocent, Shaik is really dying and Boers killed millions of noble savages.

Which is to say that the wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead...

The Rooster said...

@ Ron: Don't even bother with the chicken - this delusional anti-white liberal thinks the continued slaughter of white farmers in South Africa is a hoax.


------------

It's not a hoax..but it's far from the alarmist condition that some people pretend it is. 50 murders a day in this country......you probably hear of a farm murder once a month/2 months at most these days. So 1 out of 1500+ murders is a white farmer and I'm supposed to see this as the some kind of genocide ?

----------------

You have to accept that this is the type of person who still thinks Obama is a great president, Zuma is innocent, Shaik is really dying and Boers killed millions of noble savages.

Which is to say that the wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead...
-----------------

No, I don't think Obama is a good president. Where did you sucvk that out ? Way to polarise your world into two extremes. Because I don't think South Africa is close to as bad as you lot make out suddenly you can predict how I feel about an American president as if the two are somehow related ? Can you see how fucking stupid that "logic" is ? It's based on what ? The assumption that it's all about the color of a persons fucking skin ??? Stupid !!!!!!


I judge people as individuals..Obama is a slimy fucking sociopath like the rest of American presidents that have ever existed...including worshipped fucking Kennedy.

The Rooster said...

The Rooster man is making a lot of noise about “culture” either black African or “Boer” culture.

Wonder what his “culture” is?

Fool.

I don’t like him……..

-----------

Western, humanist, post modernist.

Trey Cruz said...

Rooster: In that the same deity is being worshipped at this very moment by many billions of civilized human beings, [guess that excludes you] He [Christ] can rightfully be considered a 21st century, space age deity, but more correctly the only True God.
Sorry to disturb you, you can get back to making muti, or poking your goat, or planning your next raid on a smallholding, or whatever you were doing..............

Trey Cruz said...

The Rooster: marxist, socialist, fantasist, victim of public education, incompetent, fool, qualified only to run his mouth.

Angulus Calx said...

post modernist?

Now isn’t that interesting.

Never though of you as a capitalist.

“Literary critic Fredric Jameson describes postmodernism as the "dominant cultural logic of late capitalism." "Late capitalism" refers to the phase of capitalism after World War II, as described by economist Ernest Mandel; the term refers to the same period sometimes described by "globalization", "multinational capitalism", or "consumer capitalism". Jameson's work studies the postmodern in contexts of aesthetics, politics, philosophy, and economics.”

Anonymous said...

The Rooster is just a young, ignorant COCK.

There will come a time when he grows up, his balls drop, his voice deepens and he wakes up from his liberal stupidity. I just hope, for his sake, it happens before he is killed by a black in South Africa through hijacking or home invasion.

You see, the young cock does not understand that it does not matter what you say to the blacks, or what you have done for the blacks. All that matters to the blacks is the colour of your skin. If you are white, you are racist and bad.

When the young cock is on the wrong end of a firearm, the black holding the firearm will not care how many times he has posted on this blog, or how much he believes in the concept of a 'rainbow nation'. All that will matter is skin colour.

This is something that the young cock has yet to learn, so it seems. It will happen, it is inevitable.

As mentioned, I just hope that it happens before he dies at the hands of his black 'brothers'.

Ron. said...

Rooster is on a tirade again. If people want to view themselves as South Africans that is their business but let's not forget that less than 100 years ago there was no such thing as a South African because the macro State known as South Africa had yet to exist. If you are so proud to be a South African: then why did you not celebrate the centennial of the creation of South Africa earlier this year? Seems to me that the term South African is just a simplistic label applied to everyone living within the macro State of South Africa because a Scot in Britain would not be satisfied with just being labeled a Brit. The fact of the matter is that national / group identities existed LONG before the State of South Africa & the subsequent notion of a South African because the State of South Africa was IMPOSED onto the entire population without consulting the various constituent peoples found trapped under its domination. Furthermore South Africa was created by British Imperialists who care little for the aspirations of the various peoples they now dominated over with their artificial macro State. Therefore the Boers [ along with the Zulus / Sothos / Griquas etc. ] existed as such long before South Africa imposed itself onto the region as a result of British legislation [ the South Africa Act of 1909 ] passed in the British Parliament.

Ron. said...

Rooster quote: [ What's wrong with viewing yourself as a South African ? Surely your allegience should lie with the people with whom you share a country, judicial system, government and shared destiny ? ]

Since the State of South Africa imposed without consultation it is a continuing injustice to to expect everyone to view themselves as such. The Roman Empire was similarly imposed but you could excuse those who resisted their control as they had their OWN culture & institutions / countries long before Rome invaded. Remember: the Boers had their own internationally recognized Boer Republics before the British invaded them [ killing off half of the Boer child population in the concentration camps in the process ] / conquered them then arbitrarily stuck them into the British created macro State of South Africa. The notion of a South African is therefore a manufactured identity because it has no relevance in a historical context as the various national groups had their own identities & collectivities / states long before the notion of a South African which was created out of whole cloth on paper.

One's allegiance of course should lie with the people with whom one shares a country & for the Boers that would be towards their fellow Boers & their historic republics. Now I realize that this is viewed as a threat to South African State apologists but I have nothing against anyone who wants to maintain a South African State & a South African identity as all I am pointing out is that many Boers are still patriotic to their shared destiny & their inherent right to self determination.

Ron. said...

Rooster quote: [ Give this cry baby a tissue ! Who the fuck is trying to eradicate the boer and his culture ? This is a neurotic fucking fantasy no doubt bred by the projection of how you think black people should feel given what fucking assholes you were to them for the last century. the government has Afrikaans as an official language, it's done nothing to stop all Afrikaans schools or universities, if anything there's been zero to fuck all change in most Afrikaners over a certain age in this country. Crap clothes and crap music to dance craply to galore for your average boer to revel in ! ]

The global elite & its surrogate colonial subsidiary regimes backed by the various money powers [ including the Afrikaans money power who is totally against the Boers ] are definitely trying to eradicate the Boers as can be clearly seen with the escalating genocide against them & the rewriting of history complete with renaming towns which were named after or by Boer people.

I do not presume "how Black people should feel" nor do I project it because the Boers were also under Apartheid as the regime which was in control during the 20th cent was a generic White regime not a Boer regime [ though the term "Boer" was abused as a derogatory term to imply that all White locals were "Boere" ] as only a smaller percentage were of Boer descent & were certainly not acting in the tradition of the Boer people as the 20th cent regime was mimicking & extending the British Imperialism prior.

The Boer dialect of Afrikaans was removed from the public sphere back in the early 1920s & Afrikaans as a general language of instruction has been greatly reduced in favour of English as the number of Afrikaans "educational" institutions has been dramatically scaled back. Once again you conflate the Boers with the Afrikaners. Those Afrikaners on the new gravy train will obviously not be as affected [ for now ] as much as those Boers of lesser means who will have a much harder time just trying to survive in an environment whose skin colour disqualifies them from employment opportunities.

The harsh judgmental attitude [ I thought you folks were not supposed to be judgmental ] towards the Boers' culture & Boer people in general does not negate their inherent right to self preservation & to strive for self determination as they have been doing so ever since 1795.

Ron. said...

The Boers are becoming increasingly impoverished & downtrodden & they were always quite downtrodden ever since the British stole their republics & killed off so many Boer children in the concentration camps & all throughout the 20th cent even when the Afrikaners would hijack a truncated version of Boer history & sometimes pay lip service to the Boers' while steadily restricting & subverting their long held aspirations of self determination.

It is impossible to " reject what is means to be a Boer" anymore than one can "reject what it means to be a Scot". Though I certainly concede that many folks do abandon their national identity in favour of seeing themselves as only "a citizen of the world" which is a dangerous meme instilled by the global elite who aim at destroying national cultures & boundaries in order to promote & more easily implement their centralizing global police State wherein no one will have the right to resit.

I am not surprised to read how you favour the break up of national identities & cultures because you appear to act as a propagandist for the creation of a one world government which would be impossible to instate without first destroying local & national identities & cultures.

Ron. said...

Rooster quote: [ It's not a hoax..but it's far from the alarmist condition that some people pretend it is. 50 murders a day in this country......you probably hear of a farm murder once a month/2 months at most these days. So 1 out of 1500+ murders is a white farmer and I'm supposed to see this as the some kind of genocide ? ]

The fact that the Boers are smaller in number means that they will disappear at a MUCH FASTER RATE than other local ethnic / national group. That by definition is a genocide. None other than the President of Genocide Watch Gregory Stanton had noted EXACTLY this when he pointed out that their smaller numbers means precisely that they will disappear faster & further noting that the killing of Boer farmers constitutes a genocide under the Genocide Convention.

The fact of the matter is that at least 3 White farmers are killed each week! Just because it is not as reported does not mean that it has stopped! The profession of South African farmer is reported as the most dangerous profession.

The Rooster said...

post modernist?

Now isn’t that interesting.

Never though of you as a capitalist.


-----------------

Why ? Because people fit into neat little boxes in your mind ?

The Rooster said...

The fact of the matter is that at least 3 White farmers are killed each week! Just because it is not as reported does not mean that it has stopped! The profession of South African farmer is reported as the most dangerous profession.

---------------

I think you are confusing the meaning of the word "fact". You seem to use the word "fact" to describe something entirely untrue than you pulled out your arse, but suits your agenda. The media has a bukkake over anything resembling a "farm murder" in this country. It's smeared over the front pages with gory details creating the illusion if anything that it's more common than what in fact exists.

Don't get me wrong. There were a bunch of farm murders in the nineties which were so gruesome you had to conclude these were "revenge" attacks. And one can never condone this but if we're being honest it was quite run of the mill during apartheid for farmers to grossly abuse and mistreat their workers. If as a man you're being treated as a dog, swore at, dehumanised, beaten etc for years by someone you consider to be an alien opportunist to your land , I suggest even the best of us might eventually consider violence.

Any objective analysis of the situation clearly shows that farm murders have slowed to a trickle. The last one I hear of involved two black women getting killed too so I fail to see how the agenda was political. Certainly I awm a person who surfs through a lot of media and actively look for such things so that I can be sure I've not got my head in the sand. FACT is they are increasingly rare. When one happens of course people like you with a confirmation bias forget the space between and it validates all your paranoid neurosis. Step back for a moment and take the time to re-examine the reality and I think you will be surprised at howe misplaced all your paranoia is.

The Rooster said...

The harsh judgmental attitude [ I thought you folks were not supposed to be judgmental ] towards the Boers' culture & Boer people in general does not negate their inherent right to self preservation & to strive for self determination as they have been doing so ever since 1795.

-------------

When have I ever pretended to be nice ? You guys have smeared me with this "liberal" brush. Actually I'm not liberal in the slightest. I don't consider many people to be equal to western white males in intellect or capabilities. That sadly includes "Boers". The difference between us is that you perhaps see this as purely a genetic thing where I see it mostly as a social construct. I think if people otherside the boerewors curtain wanted to they could rid themselves of chains that tie them to their cultural dogma and be free to open their minds and expand their intellectual horizons. Without that sadly all you're going to breed is more people aspiring to nothing more in life than mag wheels and two tone shirts.

I don't know why you don't want me to be allowed to look down on boers, yet it's such a cornerstone of your culture to look down at everyone else. I had to watch the movie "karate kallie" the other day and let me tell you I'm not so sure your culture is really in any place to be handing out critique to anyone else. If there is some kind of ladder made up with rungs of relative intellectual relevence you might be slighly above the south african blacks at this stage, but I would suggest when generalised as a whole you're a few rungs down compared to other "western people" like us souties who are far more likely to be university educated, affluent and at peace with the global village.


Noe nice being looked down upon now is it ?

Now my peace offering. I've pointed out before that I myself am "half Afrikaans". What I mean by that is one of my parents is Afrikaans. I have many other family members very close to me who are Afrikaans. So clearly when I appear meanspirited to Afrikaans people I'm doing it to gather a emotive reaction. I'm mimicking your bigotry back at you in hope you'll recognise what's wrong with it. When I see a bunch of mostly Afrikaans men playing rugby in the green and gold those are still "my team" and I'll cheer them till I'm hoarse.

Islandshark said...

Farm attacks & murders plastered all over the newspapers? Is that why so many of the incidents aren't even reported in English media?

There is of course no attempt by the ANC govt to limit the exposure they get in the media. That is also a hoax.

I have said this so many times in the past - South Africa's final destruction will not come at the hands of the murdering savage, but the delusional morons spreading propaganda that everything is fine.

The Rooster said...

Farm attacks & murders plastered all over the newspapers? Is that why so many of the incidents aren't even reported in English media?

There is of course no attempt by the ANC govt to limit the exposure they get in the media. That is also a hoax.

I have said this so many times in the past - South Africa's final destruction will not come at the hands of the murdering savage, but the delusional morons spreading propaganda that everything is fine.

--------------

Oh wow...just wow. If you're really one of these people who think the A.N.C conduct meetings on how to kill white people and cover it up you need a fucking smack of fucking reality. Grow the fuck up.

The Rooster said...

Farm attacks & murders plastered all over the newspapers? Is that why so many of the incidents aren't even reported in English media?


--------------

Such as ? Every time this or another racist website posts a farm murder...which isn't nearly as often as they would like....it's from the mainstream media. Keep drinking Adriana striujts fucking bullshit kool aid if you must, but stop trying to convince other people there's any evidence of this half baked conspiracy drivel. That woman is the cornerstone of so much mythology it's a fucking joke. To hitch your cart to her wagon is to make a fool of yourself.

Islandshark said...

@ demented foul-mouthed chicken: I need a dose of reality? You're joking, right?

The ANC isn't holding secret meetings on how to kill whites - they do it in broad daylight every time the idiot Malema opens his mouth and is supported by your criminal, corrupt president - arsehole. Or every time a stupid excuse is given for farm murders, like the one your demented arse is peddling - the owner must have abused his farm workers.

And lastly, you brain-dead excuse for a human being - pity your brain disease didn't wipe you off this earth instead of some innocent farmer.

The Rooster said...

@ demented foul-mouthed chicken: I need a dose of reality? You're joking, right?

The ANC isn't holding secret meetings on how to kill whites - they do it in broad daylight every time the idiot Malema opens his mouth and is supported by your criminal, corrupt president - arsehole. Or every time a stupid excuse is given for farm murders, like the one your demented arse is peddling - the owner must have abused his farm workers.


----------------

Oh please. They banned the singing of the entirely harmless song that everyone understood not to be literal namely "kill the boer". Oher than this massive streching of the truth Malema has not ever said or endorsed anything that promotes killing anybody.
----------------
And lastly, you brain-dead excuse for a human being - pity your brain disease didn't wipe you off this earth instead of some innocent farmer.

-----------------

Don't lose hope. I'm far from cured yet.

Viking said...

Ron

"the Boers had their own internationally recognized Boer Republics"

Are you sure about that? I don't recall their ever having been internationally recognised.

@Rooster

You don't have to like a culture to tolerate it. I had a horrible time in the Transvaal, it doesn't mean I think the people should be wiped out. I found it incredibly hard to see many of them as "my people" - but not nearly as hard a time as they seem to have had with it.

My question is this:
Do you have anything negative to say about the current ANC government?

The Rooster said...

@Rooster

You don't have to like a culture to tolerate it. I had a horrible time in the Transvaal, it doesn't mean I think the people should be wiped out. I found it incredibly hard to see many of them as "my people" - but not nearly as hard a time as they seem to have had with it.

My question is this:
Do you have anything negative to say about the current ANC government?

----------------

I have said over and over again I will tolerate them. My wish is for them to tolerate others.

Negative against the A.N.C government ? Wow...are you serious ? There's very little positive to say about them , they are a terrible example of a government !


The only thing to remember is that they're far better than any other government we have had. The gross majority of South Africans live far better lives today under the A.N.C than any other government. As soon as we can admit that the sooner we are emotionally mature enough to start to work towards something better. But that won't happen when our way to criticise the A.N.c is so loaded with racist rhetoric that we can never be expected to be taken seriously by our majority black countrymen.


If you truly care about this country and want what is best for it you will join me in my very sophisticated method towards brining about change rather than jumping on the hate bandwagon. Black people are a wonderfully kind and generous folk. We need to nurture what is good about them and bring it to the fore rather than poke at the cists of the past we created and expect better results.

Exzanian said...

@Rooster
Yeah right, so we close this blog, all the others do it and go back to ZA and that's it then? We'll braai some skaap tjops with the blacks, follow your plot and it's gonna be hunky dory?
Fuck off....

Islandshark said...

There you have it - ANC is the best govt SA has had.

That is why the life expectancy of the chicken's brothers fell from European levels in the late 70s to below that of people in Iraq, because the lifestyles of all people are so vastly improved.

Kind and generous? Maybe some of them, but unfortunately statistics of all kinds all over the planet tend to prove differently.

I rest my case - the demented chicken can't come up with any facts (typical of hate-mongering liberals), won't respond when facts are presented to him which discredit his "theories" and then comes up with this utter crap.

Not that he really needs to expose himself further, but if his latest comment isn't a clear reflection of his mental state, I don't know what is.

As far as I am concerned he is a worm like BC, always coming at an angle and whenever given the opportunity to voice an opinion, will start peddling this senseless BS.

Viking said...

Rooster, fair enough. Although it doesn't bother me whether they tolerate me (or anyone else) or not. meh.

As for the "gross" majority - ach, man, they're not that bad. I hear they wash occasionally!

But seriously:
"But that won't happen when our way to criticise the A.N.c is so loaded with racist rhetoric that we can never be expected to be taken seriously by our majority black countrymen."

Absolutely, and you're 100% right (credit where it's due). I (and I'm very sure I'm not alone here) don't hate them because they're black (not all of them are, anyway) but because they're a shit government and they're ruining a perfectly good country with a lot of potential to be something great. In fact, they're about to drive every doctor in SA out of the country (more on this after the weekend) because of their ideological blindness.

Your final paragraph is wonderfully paternalistic in a non-agressive sort of way - very "noble savage". Which is not to say that black South Africans are not 'kind and generous'; it's just that while they believe they have nothing to learn from us (partly thanks to past experiences) the results aren't likely to improve. mistrust and cultural prejudice do work both ways.

Viking said...

Oh, and to the couple of recent anonymous commenters - I'm not publishing Holocaust denial.

I'm just not.

Sue me.

Ron. said...

No Rooster I did not "pull it out of my arse". The murder rate for SA farmers is 313 per 100,000 - the highest in the world. Source: http://www.interpol.com. This news article notes that two White farmers are killed each week. It was reported in the past by Anthony Lobaido of WND that it was as high as 3 per week. I did not realize that anti-genocide was an "agenda"! Though that telling remark clearly demonstrates that you have a pro genocide agenda. Farm murders are rarely ever on the front pages.

The notion of "revenge attacks" is absurd on its face & is a cleverly instilled meme propagated so as to shift the blame of the attacks & murders onto the victims! This is tantamount to blaming a rape victim for the crime simply over her attire! Why do you employ thisdisgusting tactic when the vast majority of farm victims are ELDERLY people whom the attackers / murders targeted simply for the physical weakness. If it was a "revenge attack" [ for what? ] Then one would expect to see actual farm workers killing their employers & not random attackers from out of town selecting their victims over physical weakness & age & killing them in a military style where nothing is even taken from the victims.

Rooster quote: [ it was quite run of the mill during apartheid for farmers to grossly abuse and mistreat their workers. ]

This is a discredited assertion which is not substantiated with credible hard evidence but based solely on hearsay from those who have an agenda.

Quote: [ If as a man you're being treated as a dog, swore at, dehumanised, beaten etc for years by someone you consider to be an alien opportunist to your land , I suggest even the best of us might eventually consider violence. ]

That is a total a priori & discredited argument because the earliest farm workers were the Sotho refugees Shaka pushed into the Boer Republics region.

Odd how you talk about "paranoia" [ for the crime of noting the farm attacks & murders ] yet you promote the authentically paranoid assertion concerning your comic & a priori portrayal of Boers.

The attacks & killing of Boer farmers is a confirmed fact but your calumnious portrayal of Boers is not.

Ron. said...

Rooster. I am not one of those who thinks that you are a "liberal" because you have long betrayed an illiberal & downright totalitarian agenda which is not even thinly veiled because of your constant propagandizing for the destruction of national identities & an allegiance only to an oppressive global dispensation.

Claiming that Boers "look down" on anyone is an ironic statement considering how you folks look down on them & how you work so hard at demonizing them for the sole purpose of recruiting others to look down on them too. There are Boer Patriots like Professor Tobias Louw who attend Zulu ceremonies & there are folks like Eddie von Maltitz who attend social gatherings with the local Sothos & speaks fluent Sesotho. Boers might have been paternalistic but they rarely ever "looked down" on anyone due to their own humble roots.

The so called "global village" is just a euphemism for global governance money power dictat. You claim to be "mimicking" my alleged [ or do you mean the Boers as a whole ] "bigotry" yet you do not have one concrete example of such on my part because I do not espouse or support bigotry - yet you on the other hand are clearly articulating bigoted rhetoric.

Ron. said...

Re: Rooster 31 July 2010 23:47. Well well well. Looks like that intrepid journalist has really irritated you! Just like she does to Greg the other lying / sloganeering / obfuscating troll with an agenda. Stuijt was threatened by the Apartheid regime back when you were still in diapers. I notice that you trolls can never refute any of the documented facts she presents but always resort to ad homimen attacks against her character.

Ron. said...

Viking. I am 100 % sure that the Boer Republics were in fact internationally recognized as I read it myself in: The Story of the Boers by Dutch diplomat C W van der Hoogt on page 96 published in 1900 which noted that five European governments including also the American government all recognized the independence of the Boer Republics. There were embassies abroad as well. Here is the excerpt in question.

[ The Republic was now in possession of a Convention, which from the nature of its provisions seemed to promise a peaceful future. In addition to Great Britain it was recognized in Holland, France, Germany, Belgium, and especially in the United States of America. The American Secretary of State at Washington, writing to President Pretorius on the 19th November, 1870, said: "That his Government, while heartily acknowledging the Sovereignty of the Transvaal Republic, would be ready to take any steps which might be deemed necessary for that purpose." ]

Link to page in question.

I even posted an entire article on this fact on my own blog. Nice to know people actually bother read my humble blog. The Boer Republics were Recognized.

The Vierkleur was also recognized abroad as a flag representing the Boer nation.

Ron. said...

Furthermore Viking. The very documents which led to the creation of the major Boer Republics ie: the Sand River Convention of 1852 [ for the republics north of the Vaal river ] & the Orange River Convention of 1854 [ for the Orange Free State Republic ] were both an exercise in international recognition as they were signed by the British. Later a number of other governments recognized the independence of the Boer Republics. No wonder the Boer people have always had such a hard time in their struggle for self determination because so many people are not even aware that they even had internationally recognized Boer Republics in the first place. The second Anglo-Boer War was a military act aimed at rescinding the international recognition of the Boer Republics as the British Empire wanted to be the sole power of the region.

The Rooster said...

No Rooster I did not "pull it out of my arse". The murder rate for SA farmers is 313 per 100,000 -

------------

Rubbish. I debunked that totally on my site. That is a Adrianna struijt consctruct and so full of total dishonesty you maker a mockery of your cause to quote it.

That number comes from taking the total ammoutn of white farmers...and then dividing it by the total murders of rural people (of all races)who live in rural and peri urban area. I'm not trying to bullshit you ..that's the truth. That is how she arrived at that absurd statistic. If you consider that a valid statistic you're a fucking retard. The murder rate of white farmers is less than the national average. Go check it out on my blog if you need more proof. I pretty much shut the door on that bitch.

The Rooster said...

@Rooster
Yeah right, so we close this blog, all the others do it and go back to ZA and that's it then? We'll braai some skaap tjops with the blacks, follow your plot and it's gonna be hunky dory?
Fuck off....

______________

Seriously as far as I am concerned for us whities here everything is hunky dory right now.

The Rooster said...

The notion of "revenge attacks" is absurd on its face & is a cleverly instilled meme propagated so as to shift the blame of the attacks & murders onto the victims! This is tantamount to blaming a rape victim for the crime simply over her attire! Why do you employ thisdisgusting tactic when the vast majority of farm victims are ELDERLY people whom the attackers / murders targeted simply for the physical weakness. If it was a "revenge attack" [ for what? ] Then one would expect to see actual farm workers killing their employers & not random attackers from out of town selecting their victims over physical weakness & age & killing them in a military style where nothing is even taken from the victims.


--------------

I specifically said there is never a valid excuse for murder. I'm not shedding any tears for these fuckheads who killed anyone regardless of how they were treated.


-------------

This is a discredited assertion which is not substantiated with credible hard evidence but based solely on hearsay from those who have an agenda.


--------------

Try be honest a little bit please. I can tell you a few stories that will make your skin crawl. Stories that once upon a time were told around the braai as an amusing anecdote. Don't try bullshit me. I was there buddy.

----------------


That is a total a priori & discredited argument because the earliest farm workers were the Sotho refugees Shaka pushed into the Boer Republics region.

Odd how you talk about "paranoia" [ for the crime of noting the farm attacks & murders ] yet you promote the authentically paranoid assertion concerning your comic & a priori portrayal of Boers.

The attacks & killing of Boer farmers is a confirmed fact but your calumnious portrayal of Boers is not.

----------------

Were there politically and racially motivated attacks on white farmers in this country ? Yes. Is it as bad as some people try make out ? No. Is it on the decrease ? Yes. Is it gencocide? Hell no !

The Rooster said...

Re: Rooster 31 July 2010 23:47. Well well well. Looks like that intrepid journalist has really irritated you! Just like she does to Greg the other lying / sloganeering / obfuscating troll with an agenda. Stuijt was threatened by the Apartheid regime back when you were still in diapers. I notice that you trolls can never refute any of the documented facts she presents but always resort to ad homimen attacks against her character.

_____________

On the contrary , there is not a single claim she makes that I can not easily refute with facts and data. Her claims are wildly hyperbolic and alarmist and not at all based in any sort of validity.

The Rooster said...

Props to I luvsa for allowing me to have my say and showing some interest in actually debating the issues at hand. It gives me hope that some of you at least might be salvaged from the brainwashing spell you're under and once again join the world of the rational.

I sometimes get irqued when people throw the new world order book at me. Why ? Because I'm somewhat a believer in the massive global ruling agenda myself. I don't think being a citizen of the world immedietly should bring up conotations of being subservient and passive. It's because I'm a well travelled , well informed person I've been able to formulate my perspectives on global agendas , rather than despite it. What's going on in South Africa is frankly not that sophisticated to require conspiracy theories however. We have a black government , born from the very valid requirment for human rights. They're unsurprisingly (given the conditions we created for south african blacks) highly flawed. I can only say however that it is foolish to ignore the new generation of young black people emmerging in this country right now. Highly educated, ambitious , vurtuos, neo western beings with massive potential to break all stereotypes associated with Africa. Be willing to see it and you will. Put it from your mind and risk becomming a stubborn relic.

The Rooster said...

Alright let me get a solution in this morning rather than a moan.

Are we whites superior to blacks currently ?


Well that seems pretty obvious to me at this time. Yes, we are. But what is it that makes us superior other than our intelligence ?


Isn't it our compassion ? Our belief in dignity, civility and advancement ? Our noble belief it is out duty to create a better world rather than a more oppresive one ? Why ? Because we first and formost have developed a society that can transcend our animal state via the enlightenment. Is it not our duty to lead others into the light ?


Given that these are the traits that make western man the most noble and unique non self serving being the planet has ever known, I would not give it up as part of my make up for anything. As a athiest and humanist I hold most dear the idea that with these traits of compassion etc I reduce myself to nothing more than an territorial machievellian beast. A savage whose playing a power game at the expense of all that is special and unique about what you're capable as a human being. A savage the likes of which I'm seeing in others.

Take the higher ground my friends. That's all I'm saying. It would be far too easy and ethically bankrupt for us white men to rule the world with intolerance.

Trey Cruz said...

Rooster: Intolerance is not only sensible useful and creative, in many cases it is mandatory.
There are some things that are just not to be tolerated.
Such as the brainless drivel, chronic violence, made up "facts", crypto leftist doubletalk and generally unsanitary, absurdly self destructive behaviour of the average kaffir.
You, Rooster, claim to be "white", but "kaffirdom" is not defined strictly by skin colour, but moreso by a weltanschauung, a behaviour pattern and an attitude.
With this in mind, your posts here reveal you to be a true kaffir of the rudest and most useless type.
You, sir, are to be "tolerated" only as a form of comic relief, and nothing else.

Anonymous said...

Rooster, your immaturity and naiveté are being exposed. I recommend you refrain from posting comments before you actually have some experience, and think about what want to say in the context of the real world. The real world, in which real people live and real consequences are felt.

You are clearly someone who is still very young and has yet to see the world in its true light. Turning off the TV and reading some books may be a good start.

You truly are deluded and I worry about you spreading your delusional thoughts amongst other young people you come into contact with.

One day, when you are all grown up, you may well see things a little more clearly.

Anonymous said...

I see that Apartheid is making a comeback, except its the other way around this time...

http://bnp.org.uk/news/national-lottery-funds-apartheid-blacks-only-schools

No doubt, the deluded chicken and his ilk will say that its a 'good' form of Apartheid, because is discriminates against the bad, evil whites and helps the poor, downtrodden blacks.

Shame, poor blacks, always in need of a leg up to 'achieve' something. They cannot seem to manage on their own....

Personally, I think it has more to do with their room-temperature IQ than it does with their history.

Ron. said...
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Ron. said...

Rooster: you claim to "debunk" that
figure on your site yet provide no link to such to investigate. Furthermore that figure comes from the Interpol website [ as I pointed out ] & not from Stuijt. Further destroying your assertion of the alleged methodology she supposedly used. Calling her names only weakens whatever case you have - & it was rather weak to start with as you provide no counter evidence. The whole "us Whities" demonstrates that you view things under a one dimensional racial paradigm because certainly some White people are better off [ ie: those on the gravy train like you I suspect ] while others are not.

Rooster quote: [ Try be honest a little bit please. I can tell you a few stories that will make your skin crawl. Stories that once upon a time were told around the braai as an amusing anecdote. Don't try bullshit me. I was there buddy. ]

The fact that you can only offer hearsay [ which is by definition what your "stories" you can tell are ] & not empirical evidence further bolsters the fact that those "stories" are only hearsay. I find it amusing that you counter my valid point with more hearsay. Asserting that the "stories" were told "around the braai as an amusing anecdote." is further unsubstantiated hearsay & only serves to demonize a people you have repeatedly & gratuitously demonized in the past.

The notion that "you were there" is laughable & shows that you are slipping up & loosing all grasp on reality as you are only in your early 30s [ remember you admitted you age in the past ] therefore there is no way in hell you "were there". Furthermore you are a city dweller & do not live on a farm.

The killing of Boer farmers has been declared a genocide by the very authority on genocide: the President of Genocide Watch Gregory Stanton. Stanton stated this back in 2002 & publicly noted on the Carte Blanche television program that the killing of Boer farmers constitutes a genocide under the Genocide Convention.

Ron. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron. said...

What you conveniently forget is that Stuijt is not making "claims" but simply reporting the confirmed facts - or do you intentionally miss & gloss over all of those numerous links that she provides within her numerous reports. Furthermore you provided no data to counter the data that she notes within her reports. Then you assert that you want to "debate" yet only engage in primary school level denials. Then you ADMIT to being in favour of the global ruling agenda which comes as no surprise considering your gratuitous hostility to the Boer people whom you folks view as a tremendous threat as they risk scuppering your agenda to consolidate a global police State wherein no country would be allowed to exist as an authentic independent entity entitled to exercise self determination.

Ron. said...

The following transcript form the Carte Blanche television program featuring Gregory Stanton the President of Genocide Watch & a recognized authority on genocide & will forever debunk the mendacious nonsense that there "is no Boer genocide" occurring as this genocide has been officially recognized by a leading authority on genocide & the killing off of Boer farmers is noted by Genocide Watch to constitute a genocide under the Genocide Convention.

Dr Gregory H. Stanton (Genocide Watch): “It seems to me a very troubling statistic that the murder rate of the farmers, the Boer farmers, is about four times as high as is for the rest of the population”

Dr. Stanton is a retired American professor of law who heads Genocide Watch, the organisation that co-ordinates the international campaign to end genocide.

We met him in Berlin where he was attending a conference in
remembrance of the Holocaust.

He believes that, apart from crime, there's also another motive.

Gregory: “There's a motive of hatred, that these are hate crimes, that people are tortured, that they're murdered in ways that are de-humanising.”

Not only does Stanton believe farm murders are hate crimes, but he's also recently warned the world that the white farmers in South Africa could be facing genocide. Twenty years ago he witnessed the horrors of the Cambodian genocide.

Gregory: “I realised, I think, from that point forward that I would spend the rest of my life working to stop genocide and to bring those who committed it to justice.”

Years later, that's exactly what he did. He was the person responsible for drafting the UN resolutions that created the International Criminal
Tribunal for Rwanda.

Stanton has identified eight stages of genocide by comparing the history of genocides in the 20th century. He describes it as a process, rather than an act that could take many years to be effected.

Gregory: “The third stage is really where you begin the downward spiral into genocide and that is the stage of de-humanisation. It is where you treat the other people as though they're less than human.”

A scene like this, he says, should have the alarm bells ringing.

This farmer was ambushed at his farm gate, shot in the back and left to die. His vehicle was burnt out and his body displayed with the lights and number plates.

To be continued.

Ron. said...

Continuation.

Gregory: “These are clearly hate crimes. It's such a symbolic expression of de-humanisation. They're so treating him like a thing.”

It's often thought that a whole group needs to be killed before it's defined as genocide, but that's not the case.

Stanton says the more than one thousand four hundred farmers killed in South Africa could be classified under the Genocide Convention.

Gregory: “Even if it's a few hundred individuals who have been targeted, that is an act of genocide under the convention.”

However, Stanton warns that South Africa has already slipped into the fifth stage of the process, or what he refers to as polarization.

Gregory: “Extremists attempt to drive out the centre, they attempt to divide the world into just two camps; into us and them.”

And from there on, he says, it's a small step to the seventh stage when the actual genocide takes place and where the word genocide is used.

Gregory: “People who commit this crime often think amazingly enough
that they're purifying their society in some way or another, you know - they're getting rid of insects or some kind of less than human form of life.”

A civil war is potentially more likely, says Moolman.

Prof Neels Moolman: “I don't think we are there yet, but I think that we are speeding to that point very fast if the radicals are not controlled properly.”

Gregory: “They will say that the genocide was really just a civil war as though a civil war somehow was an opposite of genocide when in fact many genocides occurred during civil wars.”

Link to the transcript.

There can be no more denial now.

Ron. said...

Continued denial of this documented genocide will only cause the genocide to worsen as happens in all places where genocide is denied which is no doubt part of Rooster's & Greg's despicable plan.

The Rooster said...

Rooster: you claim to "debunk" that
figure on your site yet provide no link to such to investigate. Furthermore that figure comes from the Interpol website [ as I pointed out ] & not from Stuijt. Further destroying your assertion of the alleged methodology she supposedly used. Calling her names only weakens whatever case you have - & it was rather weak to start with as you provide no counter evidence

----------

I use her data and point out her blatant bullshit , half truths, hyperbole , misleading statement, cherry picking , unsubstantiated , logically flawed, statistically miscalculated, third force factor missing, frankly totally bullshit assertions. With great ease. She really does not have a case at all. Everything she repeats over and over again is wrong ...and I think she knows it is wrong. She does deliberately include non whites, people who aren't farmers and don't even live on farms into her stats at random abandon. Then she devides their murders by a white farmer number she pulled out of her bum like everything else. The woman is a fucking joke and anyone who has read her site and not got in on the joke has an incredible confirmation bias. You are only seeing what you want to see , even in the face of it being absurd.

The Rooster said...

You, Rooster, claim to be "white", but "kaffirdom" is not defined strictly by skin colour, but moreso by a weltanschauung, a behaviour pattern and an attitude.

---------

Agreed and you will find those whites emulating uncivilized "Kaffer" behavior to chiefly reside in the far right extremes. Simple people with a polar Cartesian dualistic view of the world.

The Rooster said...

“It seems to me a very troubling statistic that the murder rate of the farmers, the Boer farmers, is about four times as high as is for the rest of the population”

------------

Myth. Even if there were 3000 "boer murders" (a quick look through the so called list with confirm it's not made up of boers , farmers or even white people...and is since 1987..not 1994 will reveal that to be a sham.) you "expert" makes is 1400. Half what miss struit tries to peddle around in her half baked crap website. Strike one.

The Rooster said...

Stanton has identified eight stages of genocide by comparing the history of genocides in the 20th century. He describes it as a process, rather than an act that could take many years to be effected.

-----------

Assuming no breeding or death by natural cause it would take 8000 years at this rate.

The Rooster said...

The Boers are becoming increasingly impoverished & downtrodden & they were always quite downtrodden ever since the British stole their republics & killed off so many Boer children in the concentration camps & all throughout the 20th cent even when the Afrikaners would hijack a truncated version of Boer history & sometimes pay lip service to the Boers' while steadily restricting & subverting their long held aspirations of self determination.

------------

There you lot go...playing the race /victim card again. Truly capable people don't need a society that offers them leg ups and handouts, no ?

Trey Cruz said...

Rooster:
The world is essentially dualistic, and it is a manifestation of your mental disease that you do not recognize that.

As far as the "right wing extreme" is concerned; it is a propaganda shibboleth that is used by the international elites to stampede the gullible [yourself?] and control the political process.

You are your own worst enemy.
Your naivete will be your undoing.

Exzanian said...

@Rooster
Love the way Stuijt has got so up your nose you can't leave it alone, like a terrier with a wasp...Keep it up, I luv to see your poor tortured soul...he-he-he

Ron. said...

Looks like you are just spewing old discredited talking points Rooster. Because you made those baseless accusations before without providing a shred of evidence to back up your erroneous & petulant assertions. Furthermore your entire first paragraph is so disjointed that one can not even make sense of what it is you are trying to say because it is simply list of ad hominem attacks against Stuijt with no counter points.

The number of White farmers comes from documented police reports therefore the number is certainly not being pulled out of anyone's "bum". The only bum here is you. The only thing which is "absurd" is your constant denial of the confirmed & documented facts.

Now you are engaging in classic distortion because whether there are non White farm victims on the list or not it does not negate the fact that the majority of the victims are Boers. Therefore you use this as a pathetic & last ditch attempt at deflecting from the fact Boer victims predominate the list. Of course there are also some non White farm victims of violence & murder BUT the Boer victims of violence & murder are more numerous & are often killed in the most gruesome manner & even with military style precision.

Ron. said...

Now it is well known that the Boer genocide is said to have started in earnest or gained traction in 1991 not 1994 as the latter is often erroneously parroted by some & certainly it can even be said to have started much earlier such as in 1987 therefore the disputed year it started does not negate from from the fact that it picked up by the 1990s. Once again you use this as a flawed & hollow technique aimed at distracting from the fact that it escalated by the 1990s. The Pass Laws were abolished by 1987 therefore it makes sense that the murder rate would pick up as isolated farmers would now be more vulnerable to such a change in law.

This excerpt of Gregory Stanton was from the early 2000s therefore the figure has grown CONSIDERABLY since then. I am flabbergasted [ though I should not be considering your debating M. O. ] that you do not even take that simple mathematical fact into consideration because the deaths have naturally grown since then.

Furthermore Stanton in not "my" expert! [ notice the propagandistic implication folks? ] He is an authentic & word recognized expert on the matter as it is his life's work. Stanton has in fact recently stated that he is considering raising the genocide level to level 6 concerning the Boer farmers & will be doing a follow up which will no doubt include UPDATED figures. Therefore quoting the figures he cited from almost a decade ago & implying it as the final word is disingenuous to say the least.

Ron. said...

The assertion in the forth post from you is a total lie [ but then they all are ] because there are only around 35 000 White farmers [ not all of whom are Boers ] therefore if they continue to be killed off at the rate that they are then there will be no Boer farmers left in about 115 years. That is a genocide no matter how one slices it. I never said that the Boers required a leg up or a hand out but simply pointed out that due to the discriminatory laws they are subjected to that they will continue to become even more impoverished just as they were during the aftermath of the second Anglo-Boer War when they were ALSO similarly discriminated against by the then ruling regimes after they were chases off of their farms. Furthermore the Boers were always suppressed in the past [ but at least they were allowed to apply for jobs in the past ] while the suppression has increased in recent times due to the colour of their skin despite the fact that they too were also quite often disadvantaged.

The Rooster said...

Now you are engaging in classic distortion because whether there are non White farm victims on the list or not it does not negate the fact that the majority of the victims are Boers. Therefore you use this as a pathetic & last ditch attempt at deflecting from the fact Boer victims predominate the list. Of course there are also some non White farm victims of violence & murder BUT the Boer victims of violence & murder are more numerous & are often killed in the most gruesome manner & even with military style precision.

-------------

What a joker ! you really think the majority of people murdered in rural area are boers ?

The Rooster said...

his excerpt of Gregory Stanton was from the early 2000s therefore the figure has grown CONSIDERABLY since then. I am flabbergasted [ though I should not be considering your debating M. O. ] that you do not even take that simple mathematical fact into consideration because the deaths have naturally grown since then.

Furthermore Stanton in not "my" expert! [ notice the propagandistic implication folks? ] He is an authentic & word recognized expert on the matter as it is his life's work. Stanton has in fact recently stated that he is considering raising the genocide level to level 6 concerning the Boer farmers & will be doing a follow up which will no doubt include UPDATED figures. Therefore quoting the figures he cited from almost a decade ago & implying it as the final word is disingenuous to say the least.

----------------

You lot who spend your life searching every nook and cranny of the internet looking for anything to discredit the country should be the first ones to admit that "boer farm murders" are on the extreme decrease. I'll leave that for you to come to admit to yourself when you take even a minute to think objectively about it, even though I know it would actually upset you if this was the case.

The Rooster said...

The assertion in the forth post from you is a total lie [ but then they all are ] because there are only around 35 000 White farmers [ not all of whom are Boers ] therefore if they continue to be killed off at the rate that they are then there will be no Boer farmers left in about 115 years. That is a genocide no matter how one slices it.

----------------

Rubbish. Basic maths would tell you that even at this highly inflated number of 60 "white farmers" murdered a year (far less these days) that the population of farmers would continue to grow, not dissipate in 160 years ! Absurd total kak you just spewed there !

------------

I never said that the Boers required a leg up or a hand out but simply pointed out that due to the discriminatory laws they are subjected to that they will continue to become even more impoverished ...

------------

Then they must be the only group who are becoming poorer in the entire country. Other groups have all thrived. I wonder if the "discrimination" isn't more to do with the "boers" not wanting to work together with anyone else rather than the other way around.

-------------

...just as they were during the aftermath of the second Anglo-Boer War when they were ALSO similarly discriminated against by the then ruling regimes after they were chases off of their farms.

--------

Shame tog ! The saintly, innocent Boers...such a peace loving compassionate people ! Far more civilized than the brutish British. lol. Cry me a river buddy. You lot want the blacks to get over apartheid 16 years after the fact but can't get over what happened over 110 years ago yet.

------------

Furthermore the Boers were always suppressed in the past [ but at least they were allowed to apply for jobs in the past ] while the suppression has increased in recent times due to the colour of their skin despite the fact that they too were also quite often disadvantaged.

--------------

Hah. A boer lecturing me on the evil of discrimination and suppression ? If i were an unkind man I'd offer "pay back is a bitch , ain't it ?"

But instead I shall rather just point out the irony.

Now while I find the idea of a "boer genocide" to have no basis in facts. When your murders make up on average about 60 out of 18 000-22 000 a year (this figure is avarged out in previous years where the murder rate here was much higher )...or 1 in 3000. That's hardly a call for genocide.

But moving on , what'sd really absurd is when kooks start to say this is some government agenda. That's just fuxking insane !

Can someone just tell me why if the A.N.C has some Agenda to get rid of the boers, why not just tolerate a land grab ? What is the logic behind only taking 3% of all land ? This is silly stupid shit, honestly.

Anonymous said...

"Dr" Gregory Stanton is a religious nutcase who doesn't let the facts get in the way of a good horror story.

http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/GS-Stanton.htm

The Rooster said...

The boers farmers would be extinct in 115 years ?

With an average of 60 murders a year (and decreasing) ?

Ignoring the fact they like other human beings breed, how did you get to this number ?

That would take over 3500 murders a year ! Double the amount every single year any rational attempt states has happened in 24 years ! Wow , that's a big fail !!

lol. You did home economics rather than maths didn't you ?

Trey Cruz said...

Rooster:
Hey genius: They will be essentially extinct because they will emigrate rather than be "ethnically cleansed" just as they are doing in Azania's northern neighbor "Mugabestan".
Azania is following the same developmental arc as Mugabestan; it's just doing it a trifle more slowly.
The only thing that bothers me is that when Azania begins to approach the truly stone age level that the K4s seem to prefer, rats like you will emigrate rather than stay to enjoy the culture you have created.

The Rooster said...

Anonymous Trey Cruz said...

Rooster:
Hey genius: They will be essentially extinct because they will emigrate rather than be "ethnically cleansed" just as they are doing in Azania's northern neighbor "Mugabestan".
Azania is following the same developmental arc as Mugabestan; it's just doing it a trifle more slowly.
The only thing that bothers me is that when Azania begins to approach the truly stone age level that the K4s seem to prefer, rats like you will emigrate rather than stay to enjoy the culture you have created.

-------------

The Rooster said...

Anonymous Trey Cruz said...

Rooster:
Hey genius: They will be essentially extinct because they will emigrate rather than be "ethnically cleansed" just as they are doing in Azania's northern neighbor "Mugabestan".
Azania is following the same developmental arc as Mugabestan; it's just doing it a trifle more slowly.
The only thing that bothers me is that when Azania begins to approach the truly stone age level that the K4s seem to prefer, rats like you will emigrate rather than stay to enjoy the culture you have created.

-------------

You're mad !!! This country is going one way...up !!!

Yeah baby !

Ron. said...

The onus is on you Rooster to provide the necessary documentation to prove otherwise because as it stands based on the available documentation Boer farmers are being killed far out of proportion to their numbers as contrasted with the general population.

I am not one of those who searches for things to "discredit the [ so called ] country" & I find it telling that you would phrase what people do on these blogs in that manner because few of them are opposed to the "country" but to the manner in which a specific REGIME is governing.

The fact of the matter is that [ as I have pointed out prior ] the macro State of South Africa is not even an authentic or legitimate "country" because it was FORCEABLY constructed when it cobbled together VARIOUS countries ie: the ZAR / the Orange Free State / the Natalia Republic [ which was annexed to Natal ] Republic / Zululand [ which was annexed to Natal ] / Xhosaland [ which was annexed to the Cape ] / the Cape Colony & Natal. South Africa is a macro state which was constructed out of various other actual countries which were all conquered & annexed by the British power.

Ron. said...

Whether farm murders are on the "decrease" or not is besides the point as the general trend is towards total genocide. Furthermore any alleged decrease does not deflect from the fact that they were [ & are ] being killed far out of proportion to their numbers within the general population.

The notion that I would be "upset" if the farm murder numbers were decreasing is a joke because it would be YOU who would be upset as you can not get rid of the Boers fast enough! What a supreme joke for you to project YOUR own sentiments onto myself because I would be very happy if the farm murders were truly decreasing while you on the other hand would most upset as you would be "burdened" with the continued existence of a people you openly demonize & dislike.

No. The numbers of Boer farmers WILL continue to decrease even if their murder rate falls simply because they exist in a HOSTILE environment where they are often FORCED to sell off their farms & even emigrate abroad as they are discriminated against via the employment laws. Even Boer towns & streets have been renamed. I think you must be living under a rock or something because the Boer farmers [ & local White farmers in general ] are not exactly welcome in the current political environment therefore their numbers are falling not just from being killed but also from being forced to abandon farming.

Ron. said...

The Boers are not the only people becoming poorer [ in the macro State ] but they are hardest hit due to being discriminated against - for having paler skin - by the State's employment policies. Looks like you seem to think that the Boers are undeserving of having equal opportunities simply because they were " not as civilized as the British"? Which is a total joke as it was the British which resorted to war crimes in order to win the second Anglo-Boer War.

I never said that I wanted "Black people to get over Apartheid" [ which is just another meme because the Boers were ALSO under Apartheid ] as that old regime did exacerbate problems which could have been addressed differently without adopting & expanding a dying Colonial import of racial classification / registration / Statism & segregation. If you can not expect many Black people to recover from Apartheid [ as you openly imply ] then how in the world can you expect the Boers to recover form the Anglo-Boer War wherein the Boers' own countries / republics were stolen from them after loosing half of their child population & were subsequently marginalized within the macro White population often under the Afrikaner designation which tethered them to the more numerous Cape Dutch population group.

The notion that White people must defend the old Apartheid regime is a classic meme aimed at causing & exacerbating racial polarization & is nothing more than a distraction from current issues. Asserting that the Boer people must suffer being discriminated against simply because a White regime [ put in place by Britain ] discriminated in the past is a classic distraction technique aimed at ignoring the Constitutional responsibility of ensuring that no one is discriminated against despite the fact that discrimination is the law of the land once again only in reverse which only proves that the Constitution is a dead letter.

Ron. said...

Classic Rooster dialectic. What makes you think that I am a Boer? I do have some Boer ancestors but it would not be accurate to describe myself as a Boer - though I am of course interested in the topic of the Boer Nation.

The British were far more discriminatory than the Boers could ever be accused of in the first place. It is a genocide because the Boer population is disappearing much faster than any other population group.

The notion that the genocide is part of a government agenda stems from the fact that some of the captured attackers & killers have asserted that they got their orders from Shell House. Which - if accurate - would implicate the ruling government.

The agenda to get rid of the Boers started during the late 19th cent & was continued in a cultural sense in the 20th cent when the State brainwashed many Boers into viewing themselves as "Afrikaners" [ thus neutralizing them as a threat to the Afrikaner & South African establishment ] & continues to this day simply because the elite do not want the Boers to ever reclaim their old Boer Republics as the vast majority of the region's natural resources are found within them. Therefore the current neo Colonial regime is simply acting on behalf of its financial benefactors who do not want the break up of South Africa under any circumstances as they would risk the control they currently have over the resources of the region.

Ron. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron. said...

Citing a link which denies the Armenian genocide is not exactly a credible source for countering the findings of Stanton. Furthermore it does not attack him on substance but on character. Massive fail. No one wants to believe that a Boer genocide is occurring but this is what the documented evidence shows & those who are in denial of it have an agenda or simply do not want to deal with the facts which counter their narrow worldview.

The Rooster said...

The onus is on you Rooster to provide the necessary documentation to prove otherwise because as it stands based on the available documentation Boer farmers are being killed far out of proportion to their numbers as contrasted with the general population.


------------------------

No, as I already said, there is no credible data that suggest that at all. If there was an escalated threat to white farmers it would simply suggest crimes of convenience. Perceived wealthy people living isolated from police and neighbors. Certainly there have been some cases of needless violence that suggest hatred of white people...but then again that's to be expected considering what asshats we have been to the "natives". I don't condone it, I just suggest we do more to pour fuel on the fire with websites and rhetoric like this that post all the over the top dehumanizing drivel, that to ease such tensions.

If we must discuss if there's a deep rooted hatred towards whites in this country, let's do it in a sober way without portraying blacks as "muti" guzzling chimpanzees. I'm sure we could agree there is and it's certainly not without valid cause.

The Rooster said...

Whether farm murders are on the "decrease" or not is besides the point as the general trend is towards total genocide. Furthermore any alleged decrease does not deflect from the fact that they were [ & are ] being killed far out of proportion to their numbers within the general population.

-----------

No, I think it is very important. If farm murders were motivated by a violent radicalism then certainly it's on the decrease.

Again please demonstrate without having to manipulate facts and cherry pick data and distoryt figures and flat out thumb such convenient "guesstimate" statistics.

Want to prove me wrong ?

Show me legitimate and accurate data regarding the actual number of White farmers, then show me a legitimate list of how many are murdered on average a year today.

Then prove to me it's significantly more than the average for a population group. Finally show me how this can't be simply attributed to other things other than their race and you will have a case.

Viking said...

@Rooster
regarding your last comment,
for me the level of violence meted out to many farmers negates (in a way) the theory that these are crimes of convenience - surely this would necessitate a hit-and-run attitude on the part of the killers, rather than a lengthy violent attack involving torture etc?

My only argument on the subject is that the pure hatred evident in such attacks is fueled by government policy, which dehumanises (to use your term) farmers by suggesting they own their land illegitimately, or at least own it at the expense of other people.

Some of the motivations for such hatreds stem from the perception that wealth - particularly land - has been stolen from the population at large, even though land ownership patterns in SA are probably no different from any European country.

6,000 people own two thirds of the UK, for example.
(http://ezinearticles.com/?UK-Land-Ownership---Concentrated-in-the-Hands-of-the-Few&id=1139145)

The government is doing nothing to combat that hatred, in fact it is making it worse. "Redistribution" is a polite way of saying we are righting the wrongs of the past, and those who are standing in the way of such 'progress' - by doing nothing more than asking a fair price for land that has been in their families for generations - are considered reactionaries (and racists).

Islandshark said...

@ demented chicken - Prove the actual number of farm murders?

What would you trust - SA Police statistics? The friggen baboons can't even get proper statistics on their beloved brothers perishing at each other's hands, but we can trust them to keep accurate numbers on the slaughtered whites they love so dearly, can we?

Let me guess - afro-american half-wit model Naomi has also been set up?

The Rooster said...

I would trust any stats collected without an agenda to over present or under present reality. A good percentage of S.A cops are still Afrikaaner whites by the way, so I don't know why they would so silently sit by while the police manipulated statistics against their own kind.

I know you lot enjoy your conspiracy theories but do you even for a second know how many different groups of people would have to be in on the act to cover up crime statistics ?

The police (around the board), the actuaries from insurance companies, statisticians, doctots and hospital boards responsible for cause of deaths certificates, home affairs, the government etc etc. I find this entire conspiracy theory frankly quite stupid.

Islandshark said...

@ demented chicken, it has nothing to do with conspiracy.

There are known cases of police refusing to even open dockets for certain crimes where the victims are white.

Do we really have to prove corruption of SA police with 10,000 members currently in jail?

Are you really so thick to think that all other government departments are riddled with corruption to the highest level, but somehow by some miracle the police force is not, whether you are talking about police force members being involved in crimes or fudging statistics?

Are we to believe the same baboons who can't add or subtract to disclose simple financial information (like every other govt dept or municipality has proven) can suddenly accurately account for and categorise crime statistics?

You are a very fortunate person - I believe most countries in this world have specific legislation protecting people like you...

Piet the pirate said...

I´m beginning to wonder about the good folk who read this site.
We have 102, and counting, comments on this thread and all because you feel the need to put one over somebody/something that calls itself Rooster.
Jeesus in a shoebox, the name alone should give the game away.
Folks, please, ignore this stupid person. He/she/it isn´t worth your time, trust me.