"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right – a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit."
– Abraham Lincoln, Speech in Congress January 1848
– Abraham Lincoln, Speech in Congress January 1848
"A nation, therefore, has no right to say to a province: You belong to me, I want to take you. A province consists of its inhabitants. If anybody has a right to be heard in this case it is these inhabitants."
- Ludwig Von Mises, Omnipotent Government, p.90
- Ludwig Von Mises, Omnipotent Government, p.90
The principle of 'voting', not only provides for a voter to vote for any political party, of his choice within the 'political spectrum', but also to vote to secede. Secession is a viable and legal right to self determination, and often a practical solution to centralized authoritarian political and economic problems. Think about, What Future is there for Whites and Other Minorities?
In June of 1776, Virginia seceded from Great Britain, by declaring her independence. The following month Virginia, along with twelve other colonies jointly declared their independence from Great Britain. These were political acts of secession, and American Independence Day, may also be called Secession Day.
****
The Western Cape truly is a place apart
Okay, so who were the 2552 people who voted in these elections for the Cape to be declared independent? Own up.It's quite a scary number. The Cape Party, whose sole policy seemed to be some kind of secession from the rest of South Africa, got double the votes received in this province by such venerable political institutions as AZAPO and the IFP.
And support for the independence movement was not far short of the paltry ten thousand who voted locally for the various Moslem parties.
Generally speaking this election has seen a welcome set-back for faith-based politics.
The ACDP’s national total was far less than the two hundred thousand men who reportedly attended evangelist Angus Buchan’s Mighty Men gathering in KZN this past weekend and way short of the more than a million Zion church members who trekked to Moria at Easter. Thankfully the overwhelming majority of South Africans seem to be able to keep their politics and their religion apart.
And while we’re expressing delight at backward steps, what about the pitiful 8,384 recorded in the province by the very visible Freedom Front Plus (which still sounds to me like a brand of tampon). By my reckoning they had more posters in the Cape than they got votes. Who funds this madness? Why don’t they just quietly fold their tents and leave us all in peace?
Very small minority parties achieve little other than to muddy the water and clutter the lampposts. If they must exist it should be for the kind of entertainment value provided for decades in Britain by Screaming Lord Sutch and his Monster Raving Loony Party. That party name wouldn’t work here though as many would mistake it either for the ANC Youth League or Peter Marais’ latest incarnation.
But the supporters of the Cape Party will be feeling their fight was not in vain because their policy goal of separating us from the rest of the country might have been achieved by DA voters.We truly are now a place apart.
The ANC behemoth comprehensively dominates the nation, its provinces and its municipalities with the very stark exception of our corner of the country where the DA has its paws on both city and province.
On one view that’s a clear triumph for Helen Zille and for multi-party democracy. She has outmanoeuvred a changing cast of ANC heavies who have tried to unseat her council coalition and then did their damndest to keep her short of an absolute majority in the province.
On another view, it is disturbing that she has achieved her victory on the back of a deepening demographic divide in which her supporters are overwhelmingly coloured and white.
What I am not sure of is, why the DA’s failure to gain black support in the province is any more worthy of negative comment than the ANC’s inability to attract coloured and white voters? Both are equally in their electoral laagers.
I am also baffled as to why the controversial ‘Stop Zuma’ posters were so widely described as racist. That strategy by the DA made my teeth grind and it confined the party to a negative and reactive space rather than promising good governance and better policies but Zuma is not a proxy for black. He was the very high profile candidate of the ANC and a controversial one. They chose to put his face in our faces in every way possible. He was a valid target.
Some are claiming that particular poster and the DA’s verbal and legal assaults against Jacob Zuma during the election make it impossible for the provincial and national administrations to work together from now on. They forget that politicians the world over seem to find it amazingly easy to forget the bitter hustings rhetoric and to move forward.
Zuma and Zille, and the governments they head, will work together well enough if they both choose to and perceive it to be in their interests to do so.But there a couple of clear dangers.
One is that the ANC at national level will replicate the petty niggling tactics of Ebrahim Rasool’s provincial administration towards the DA- led city council. Some of the more sordid figures in ANC Cape politics will be urging the use of the budget as a political tool. At the council Zille could raise her own funds through local rates, now as premier she’s entirely beholden to the Finance Minister. The formulas which deliver those allocations could be open to manipulation.
On the other hand Helen Zille has to avoid turning every hiccup or disagreement in the relationship into a political conspiracy. She has her role to play in keeping the dialogue functional rather than emotional.
She must remember that she's premier of a province not President of the Cape Republic. Not yet anyway!
Source: Cape Argus, via Cape Party. Related: Cape Party: 'Zuma is not Our President'
GoodBye Texas?: America Came Into being Through Secession
[CNN: 21/04/09]
Media et al response to Texas Governor Rick Perry stating that should
Texans dissaproval with the Federal Goverment continue to increase,
they can always choose to secede from the Union.
[CNN: 21/04/09]
Media et al response to Texas Governor Rick Perry stating that should
Texans dissaproval with the Federal Goverment continue to increase,
they can always choose to secede from the Union.
Secession as a Constitutional Principle:
Republican Representative and former Presidential Candidate, Ron Paul
talks about the possibility of secession as a return to self-determination
and economic independence.
Republican Representative and former Presidential Candidate, Ron Paul
talks about the possibility of secession as a return to self-determination
and economic independence.
46 Opinion(s):
Anybody know many Xhosas are already in the Cape, and what their rate of population growth is?
Hi Daschund,
No idea how many Xhosas are already in the Cape; nor what their rate of population growth is.
I'd vote Cape Party. If they had concrete ideas how they propose to remove the millions of squatters etc. Maybe they could West Berlin them. Stick walls around the 'dark' spots. Then Palestine them. Build a freaking 8 metre high wall from ocean to ocean over the mountains. I'm being flippant of course. It would work if ALL the whites moved to the Cape, joined forces with the coloured, implemented strict border control etc and paid blacks to leave (the Japs are doing it as we speak). Then restrict immigration. Ideas..
Doberman,
I imagine they have ideas on the plausible eventual issue of 'squatter removal'; however consider:
Even if secession never does occur, simply the fact that it is on the agenda, is a large leverage factor (depending on the number of supporters), against the issues those who want to secede from the 'goverment' are concerned about.
Its like the difference between being psychologically, emotionally, and financially enslaved in a forced marriage, with a husband who is abusing you; and you cannot leave. As opposed to you aren't afraid to say 'If you don't fucking sort yourself out, I will leave; and no more sex (taxes from productive Aryan taxpayers), blah, blah...'
Its the difference from a perspective of victimhood (we are fucked and fuck all we can do about it); to self determination (we are fucked in this relationship, and letting you know, either you sort out your end, or we are out of here). Simplistically, but do you see the psychological and emotional difference from the two perspectives? Not to mention the political leverage point?
2552 votes is miniscule. Nobody would seriously consider it because it would in any event need to be fully racially representative: a mini rsa within RSA, or even worse, just like a Lesotho/ Swaziland.
You would need to expand the economy in the Cape to sustain all whites and coloureds.
Competitive manufacture has never worked in SA because of the K factor. Whites could compete as we would become a lot less labour intensive. A more competitive textile industry, more breweries and canned foods spring to mind. SAB and KWV have never been the best of friends, but they will have to live with each other. Lots of tourists prefer beer to wine, especially in summer.
Most jewellers in Gauteng are being pushed out of business thanks to BEE. Gold beneficiation has never taken off in SA because of the basic dishonesty of blacks. Compare the boring designs in our local jewellery shops with the far more sophisticated and exciting goods available in other countries.
If we got rid of black staff in the restaurant and hotel industry in the Cape we would have a lot less pilfering, although Cape coloureds need an eye kept on them as well.
Anyone caught stealing 3 times would be kicked out of the country. We need to weigh up the cost of kicking blacks and other undesirables out for stealing against the cost of bribing them to disappear forever.
Andrea: shoes don't stretch and abusive men and regimes don't change. You propose the withholding of sex/taxes strategy in a country with the highest rate of rape in the world and where white men get fucked over every day. Hmmm ...
Anonymous,
Nobody is saying 2552 is enormous, but you got to start somewhere. If you don't like the idea, don't vote for them, Zuma will take your vote!
Some people just complain for the sake of getting their voices heard, some offer ideas, and some put their money where their mouths are. What kind of person are you?
I ask, cause I ain't interested in wasting my time on a conversation with someone who is addicted to his ignorance. So do me a favour, if you have ever played Texas Hold Em' poker; why wouldn't you go all in, when you got a significant mathematical chance of winning the pot? Cause you either ain't got the balls, or you ain't got the intelligence, to know the reality of your chances.
Andrea: 2552 is a good start. Now we need to get serious and make real plans to do it, because the more whites start moving into the Cape, the more the ANC will bus Xhosas there. The ANC agenda is to wipe whites out, end of story.
The idea is good but it is the same as the Freedom Front.
The idea is flawed and the provision in the constitution for the right to self determination is nothing more than a piss stain on the constitution as it has no defined rights or limitations. There are also no bills drafted to support it.
The FF idea and the Cape idea is good, however without the ability to have borders you would simply be pissing in the wind as the ANC would simply bus blacks in from the Eastern Cape and then that would be the end of it all.
Blacks vote for tossers like the ANC who cannot feed them, then they flock to areas that develop because they are the smallest of the population. Then it all goes tits up.
Tell you what - start a town in the middle of the bloody Karoo tomorrow and there will be blacks at your door wanting a job. Then when they are full or pissing blood from hunger they still will vote ANC.
They are just dumb.
Daschund (sorry long comment! ;-)),
You would need to expand the economy in the Cape to sustain all whites and coloureds.
Expanding economies is a thing of the past Daschund. Exponential growth was only possible as a result of cheap energy; now that Peak Oil, is here; it's a thing of the past. Don't matter how much we hate the reality of Peak Oil's economic consequences; reality is reality.
Those regional economies, whether they secede or not, who are best prepared for dealing with a world faced with declining cheap energy, shall survive. Those living in la-la --'economic growth' industrial civilisation is going to continue forever--land are in for one hell of a rude kick in the balls awakening.
So, before I continue, I'd be clearer, if I am aware whether you are factoring Peak Oil, and consequently Peak Food, Peak Fertilizer, etc. into your perspective. If not, and you ain't clued up on Peak Oil, here is the Peak Oil Briefing Paper, I submitted to the RSA Goverment on 18 July 2006; c/o Min. of Intelligence: Mr. R. Kasrils.
As for: Andrea: shoes don't stretch and abusive men and regimes don't change. You propose the withholding of sex/taxes strategy in a country with the highest rate of rape in the world and where white men get fucked over every day. Hmmm ...
Thanks for the grin. Not sure what you meant by 'Hmmmm....' ;-)
Anyway, I agree with you, that abusive regimes don't change, I would say that now and then an abusive man can change; but seldom without the help of shock doctrine therapy (see further below).
I agree that white men get fucked over every day, and I also can't do anythign about that, unless they -- or at least a few of them -- want to say 'enough is goddamn enough: what the fuck are we going to do about it?', instead of just being helpless and hopeless victims.
For example, I have a very good friend. He grew up as a poor little boy in Virginia coalcountry. His step-father was a former Vietnam PTSD veteran, really fucked up, and beat the fucking shit out of his mother, him and his brothers for years and years. Here, in his own words is his description of his individual 'declaration of independence', and what he learnt from it.
When I was 13 years old, I interrupted one of my step father’s violent attacks by picking up a stick of firewood and breaking three of his ribs and fracturing his skull. A few weeks later, I stole the social security money, went to the hardware store in town, bought two shotguns and two cases of shells for me and my 11 year old brother (along with a basketball, a basketball hoop and backboard and a rod and reel), and took over the family at gunpoint for a while and got the house cleaned up. I told my stepfather to his face when he was cold sober that I was going to kill him the next time he laid a hand on anybody, and it became clear the family had to come to an end one way or another. I called in my grandparents we split the family up.
FORGIVENESS: I forgave my stepfather for almost everything before he died. It wasn’t easy, and beating the hell out of him was a part of the process of forgiving him. Also included in the process of forgiving him was my coming to understand all the sadness and heartbreak and damage done to him by the life of killing he had been thrown into as a teenager when he spent 6 years in the Pacific slaughtering human beings.
Forgiving my mother and stepfather benefited me more than them. I learned that if we are able to forgive we can make a new beginning. I also learned that forgiveness is a very tough process, sometimes including things I myself need forgiveness for along the way. I learned that love happens when forgiveness is a two way street, and that there is probably nothing more important than forgiveness and letting love happen.
While no one can predict anything with certainty, I am 99% sure that a Cape secession is not going to happen. It is interesting that you quote Abraham Lincoln who as President in 1860s as opposed to Senator launched the American Civil war precisely to keep the Union together. The Cape is too economically valuable to SA. It is for same reason that Alaska will not be allowed to secede from US regardless of who is president.
Daschund,
I also think 2552 is not a bad start, sure could have been better; but for a brand new party, with a very controversial policy; it's a start.
About the ANC bussing Xhosa's to the Cape. There are more than one ways to skin a cat.
For example: a few Critical Thinking Ideas:
How many Xhosa's and lazy, fornicating Psychopath K4's do you think would want to live in a province of South AFrica, that:
1. refused to pay any free water, free electricity?
2. refused to Provide grants for breeding ignorant, unwanted, hated and unloved children; cause the parents are incapable of doing anything besides pumping and dumpting fornication?
3. refused to Provide free houses?
4. implemented a law abolishing BEE, and businesses are encouraged to hired employees on their experience and qualification merits only; irrespective of ethnicity, religions etc. The best qualified for the job, get it.
Black Coffee,
No disrespect, but I think Ron Paul has a bit more credibility in my eyes, on the issue of secession than you do.
Lots more to the Civil war, than simply that one factor. Depends on how much you know about Lincoln and the Jesuits (S.J)....
If your justification for the refusal of secession is the Cape economic resource to 'SA' (whomever you consider 'SA' to be); tell me, what do you think all the 'Stans' were too Russia, particularly the Caucasian with all their oil, if not massive economic losses? Did they secede? Yes!
Did Kosovo secede from Serbia, last year? Yes! Tell me, why was that allowed to occur, Black Coffee?
To know the number of Xhosas in the province you only have to look at the number who voted for the ANC-roughly 30%. Time to start digging trenches across the N1 outside Beaufort West. Can't think of a solution for the population growth. Perhaps a sexy goat each for every Xhosa male?
Andrea, have the provinces of SA the authority to take such decisions? I think not, I may be wrong.
I wan´t to ask you guys, as the Cape area is in many ways culturally and geographically more akin to at least the closest areas of the sparsely populated country of Namibia would you rather wan´t to be part of that?
I ask as secession seems to be a difficult process, but I seem to recall that according to some archaic national rights laws in international laws countries/areas can change their alleagency from one head of state to another. Of course that would also be difficult, but would it be acceptable?
I wonder, did the Nationals not do anything to ensure that a independent Afrikaans majority speaking country could be established, at least as a plan B?
Best wishes,
Leifur
Es. my country seceded from Denmark finally 60 years ago
Whether the Cape (the Western Cape, Northern Cape, and Eastern Cape west of Port Elizabeth) secedes from the rest of SA or not all comes down to demographics. If the non-Blacks significantly outnumber the Blacks, as is the case now, then secession is possible. But Blacks are flooding into the Cape in huge numbers, closing the gap between them and the non-Blacks. If Blacks ever form a majority in the Cape, then an independent state will never materialise.
So it's a demographic race, with non-Blacks in the lead but Blacks catching up fast. It all comes down to how much South Africa's non-Blacks want a state of their own. If they can be convinced that an independent Cape is theirs for the taking, then maybe they will make the trek west in large enough numbers to tip the balance towards independence in a future referendum on the issue.
The promise of a country of their own should entice some non-Blacks to move to the Cape. But the rest will have to be SCARED into moving: Scared of a Zimbabwe-like future where they will be dispossessed and murdered on a colossal scale, scared of condemning their children and grandchildren to such a future, scared of losing everything that their ancestors built up over the last 357 years.
So it's actually a good thing that the Zuma-led ANC has purged itself of its moderates (COPE), and only the hard-line communists and militant Black nationalists remain. Let Zuma and his cronies do their worst over the next five years, destroying the economy, oppressing non-Blacks and stealing everything in sight. The Western Cape under the DA will start looking very good in comparison, and hopefully lots of Whites and other minorities will hop on the Cape Independence bandwagon and trek west. If Zuma can't scare SA's complacent non-Blacks into demanding a nation of their own, maybe nobody can.
2500 votes is pretty darned good considering that they were given zero publicity before the election and probably less than 1 in 100 voters had even heard about them. So if the other 99% had known of their existence it is quite possible they would have got not 0.13% but 13% of the vote..!!!
In fact if a small article such as this had appeared BEFORE the election, many who had not known of the existence of a cape secessionist party might have voted for them. It could very easily have doubled their vote.
And I like the way Adrian has used this opportunity to turn the colonising issue on its head and accuse the blacks of illegitimate colonisation. Cheekiness is good….it gets attention and that is what the Cape Party needs most -attention and publicity..!
All in all, it is very good to see this “impossible dream” is finally gaining traction. So what I want to say to all the doubters and defeatists who moan “it will never happen” - is to stop and think for a minute that, if enough people believe in it and support it, it CAN happen, and it WILL HAPPEN..!
Kudos to all those guys from the Cape Party who are finally doing something about it….but I do have one major criticism…..
Their website SUCKS…big time..!
(sorry guys but you must know it does)
As for cleansing the cape of the simian infestation, the idea of offering money in the form of a re-settleMUNT subsidy or income (only to be paid in Kaffirland) is very appealing because it has the potential of driving a huge wedge between those who want to accept and their ANC puppet-masters who would doubtless threaten the potential "takers" with violence (probably necklacing).
As to where the money would come from, this is not as great a hurdle as it might seem to be. Consider such a programme on a small scale in Hout Bay, which I see as a microcosm. If the HB squatters could be paid to leave, the white-owned property in and arround the simian infestation would soar in value overnight.
So, if the entire Western Cape had a share price - which it does, although we dont see it that way - the value of those shares would increase in proportion to the reduction in the simian squatter population.
Question #1 - why are property prices in the cape higher than elsewhere in SA?
Is it because the Cape economy is the strongest in SA?
No, because it is not..!
Answer - because the cape has far fewer simians than the rest of SA.
There may be other reasons but this is by far the main one.
Question #2
Given that Cape property prices are higher than elsewhere in SA, why then are they only about 20% (ie, 80% less) than Sydney, Australia for example?
Answer - because Sydney has no simian infestation. There may be other reasons, but this is by far the most important one.
So, can you all begin to see the enormous economic potential of a simian-free - or even partially simian-free Western cape?
Think about it..!
Hey Bantu Ed, I think the idea of paying people to leave (white liberals included) the Cape is certainly workable. Granted it would require some doing to initiate but it is not impossible. The money would always be found and most Cape Republicans (like the term) would easily dip into their pockets to free themselves of "undesirables" whatever their hue. Not to mention foreigners who have property and other interests in that locale. It is one of the very few options left on the table for white SAns (in SA) really.
Hi Doberman,
Thanks for your supporting comment.
Its important to throw these ideas around because so many good people who otherwise would support secession are mired in a sense of hopelessness that we have to accept an ever incresing simian component to the W.Cape population.
In order to further concentrate the minds of the doubters - think about this...
Aside from a few tiny wealthy enclaves like Bermuda or Barbados, there is NO place on planet earth where more than a token number of whites live peaceful, prosperous, and safe lives under black rule.
Everywhere else that blacks have taken over, the whites have left - usually under very harrowing circumstances, to put it mildly. The reasons for this I wont bother going into because they should be obvious to all but foolish self-deceiving white liberals.
So, to put it into a nutshell - at the end of the day either the blacks completely swamp the W.Cape, in which case all the whites will eventualy leave, or the whites (hopefully with majority coloured support, but without if necessary) will sort this problem out.
So there is no middle way of co-existence - either we are in charge of our destinies or blacks are in charge of us - and, if the latter, as is the case now - there is NO FUTURE FOR WHITES..!!
So, it all boils down to a case of either them or us - and yes, its as simple as that..!!
@Leifur
so are you a Greenlander then? or Faroe islands?
The idea of Cape Secession greatly interests me, and the 2552 is a great start. One of the reasons it isn't more popular is because, like someone commented, they have no real policies yet.
One of the main issues, aside from squatters, is some reassurance to the Coloured people that they would not be second class citizens in the new country.
Economically, the Cape could certainly stand alone, with farming and tourism huge industries as well as manufacturing.
What may happen in the near future, is that the ANC might decide that this 'federal' idea doesn't work because they've ended up losing a province and they don't like it. It is conceivable they could try to use the courts to "re-take" the WC, and this would rally a lot of support for Cape Independence amongst mainline opposition parties.
The question though is would Hellen Zille be open to such an idea in the first place?
Anon,
Would Helen Zille be open to the idea? It depends if you take politicians public pronouncements as the beginning and end of their interests. She may not in unequivocal terms express such support, and I don't agree with her on all things; but I can guarantee you, she ain't a dimwit, nor a coward.
But anyway, I shall be asking Mr. Leon what he thinks of this issue (and related issues), when he testifies, as a defence witness in my trial. So I will let you know his response.
Anon (6:36 AM): There are many possible ideas which could be considered as a petri-dish, for solutions to population growth; not least ofyour sexy goat for each Xhosa male (although I imagine zoophilias may disaprove)
Here are a few I've advocated for a long time:
* A free Copper IUD for any and every woman who wants one.
* Instead of grants to make babies, grants to women who reach the age of 25, and have refrained from procreation, and instead got an education; as an 'education bonus', which they can then use as a financial nestegg, for when they choose to have a baby.
* Progressive Tax Rate for every additional child.
* A very frank public conversation of the reality that population policy is the foundation of all other goverment policies, and that population growth, means more crime, more racism, more people fighting over less and less resources.
Leifur (6:48 AM): Legal Authority:
Legal Authority and the Legal Establishment, are a bit like 'Spiritual Authority' and the Catholic Church' during the time of Martin Luther. See the State Controlled Consciousness: Fathers 4 Justice; and you will see how British Fathers, like American Secessionists, are no longer believing the 'Lawyer Priests' BS, about the interpretation of the law. They are finding out that they are being screwed, and are choosing to represent themselves in court.
The law ultimately comes down to Hermeneutics: namely THE INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW. Alot goes into interpretation, just depends the depth to which your consciousness takes you.
For example: A hiker in the dales of Scotland's interpretation of the map of the highlands, would be far more superficial, than an SAS Special Forces Snipers. They will be looking at the same map, but be interpreting hills, etc. very differently, according to thier mission and worldview. The same applies to a lawyer/lawyers and clients interpretation of 'the law'.
You are correct the South African Constitution doesn't explicitly give the right to secede; but you have to itnerpret it in terms of its intention, and various abstract concepts, such as 'human rights', 'democracy' 'freedom', etc; and additionally, The Constitution DOES INSTRUCT THAT IT BE INTERPRETED IN ACCORDANCE WITH FOREIGN LAW AND INTERNATIONAL LAW.
Viking, thanks for the answer, I can see it happening as you describe in the end of your comment.
About my nation, of course if we would have to choose weather we would unite with Greenland or Fareo Islands the latter would be the choise as they are ethnically, culturally and linguasticly much closer to us, and even though Greenland is closer our geography is closer to Fareo Islands.
The only advantage with uniting with Greenland is that then we would officially become part of North America so maybe we could more easily escape the grasp of the European Union superstate-in-the-making (akin to the Republic of SA it its multiculturalism and descend into oblivion).
I would though like to get some of my questions answered, f.e. Andrea has some very good policy ideas posted on this thread, but can the provincial government of Wester Cape f.e. implement them? Do they have enough self-control for that or are they doomed to just carry out the central governments policy in most matters? Is there no clear split of issues/matters that are the responsibility of the state vs. the provinces vs. the municipialities (vs. even the wards whatever that is)?
Best wishes,
Leifur
Jeppo (8:31 AM)
Let Zuma and his cronies do their worst over the next five years, destroying the economy, oppressing non-Blacks and stealing everything in sight. The Western Cape under the DA will start looking very good in comparison, and hopefully lots of Whites and other minorities will hop on the Cape Independence bandwagon and trek west. If Zuma can't scare SA's complacent non-Blacks into demanding a nation of their own, maybe nobody can.
'Nail in coffin' ..... Well said! ;-)
@Viking,
Not sure whether Leifur answered your question, but I assume him to be from Iceland which gained independence from Denmark only in 1945.
The W.Cape racial population breakdown is roughly in the proportions of 50:30:20 - coloured, black, white.
If I ever get my SA citizenship back, I'll definitely vote for "the Cape Party"!
Two million Bantu in the Western and Northern Cape (which their map includes)!
just over 1.8 mill in Western Cape and just under .2 mill in Northern Cape south of the Orange!
I bet there'll be two mill other ethnicities in the rest of SA more than happy to swap with those 2 mill Bantu should the Cape become independent!
Hi Andrea, sorry to take so long to reply but I was reading your Peak Oil Briefing Paper which pretty much took up my afternoon. Not quite finished yet, I think I've read Volume 1, but very impressive indeed. You have certainly done your research.
I'd read Paul Roberts' The End of Oil written in 2002. His predictions are pretty close. He predicted that non-Opec oil production would peak by 2015, and Opec oil production by 2025. Nobody knows exactly when non-Opec production will peak or whether we are there already.
My guess is that war will prevail over reason because it solves at least three problems: overpopulation, makes arms dealers a lot of money and solves the banks' financial problems. All this liberalism that we are having shoved down our throats is designed so that we are primed to be at each other's throats when the time comes.
Oh, what did I mean by "Hmmm ..." It just means "I'm thinking."
For your friend to have been abused by his father is of course horrible. Lots of us were abused by our fathers exactly because they were emotionally messed up by the horrors of World War II, Korea or Vietnam, or Angola. I'm a woman, but my brother's and my own childhood was made a misery by my father's knocking the daylights out of my mother to the strains of Mantovani. We as children weren't physically abused, but I was severely emotionally abused by my bitchy father where my brother would have told him to shut the fuck up or or threaten him with a hiding. He wasn't a tall man.
Coming back to this Cape story: whether we could get secession for the Cape would of course depend on whether the constitution would allow for it. The ANC might want to change the constitution to suit their own purposes, in exchange for which we would ask for secession. But the ANC don't need to change the constitution, they have things going their way for the time being, until the mobs start rioting because the rand will collapse and the R250 child grants won't mean much.
Of course Mugabe will teach Zuma a few lessons on how to control mobs, but this will not make life pleasant for whites who are already dodging bullets in the cities as it is.
Leifur may have a point when he suggests Namibia instead of the Cape. But the fact is that Namibia also suffers from endemic corruption as the result of 15 years' misrule by Sam Nujoma. Newly elected President Pohamba says he wants to get rid of corruption, just like Zuma, but corruption is the African way of life so we shouldn't take those promises too seriously. They have a lot of affirmative action against whites there too, and everybody speaks German and Afrikaans. Very little English.
The real challenge for the Cape is to rule itself differently from the rest of the country.
As you say, Andrea, no free water or electricity.
No child grants. I don't think anyone will ever get it right to get black women to use copper T's to prevent pregnancy because they will get beaten up by their men or deserted if they stop pumping out the babies. Black women smile and beam when they tell you they have nine children, two of whom have a job. Hell, they will smile even if none of them have a job. They just want a shack, a couple of blankets and pots, and mielie porridge. You can't induce them to live any other way.
By the way: there is a strain of meningitis going around affecting hiv positive people. It's highly contagious between the hiv+ but not so communicable between people who don't have hiv. So they say, at least. If you have a cold, be careful to keep a low profile until you have it under control. The hospitals aren't helping, they are just giving them painkillers. They will always have someone who works for a madam, no matter how many of them have jobs, to approach to "help" them (pay for) get the sick family member to a proper doctor. They will never stick their hands in their own pockets and pay for a proper GP themselves. It's not the African way; the white man/madam pays for the maid's daughter to go to the white doctor, but the maid's sister with the job at Wimpy won't pay a white doctor for the same assistance, they would rather go to a witch doctor. Leave them to it, but don't get infected. Meningitis sucks BIG time. Extremely painful. And why should we help them when they get all these opportunistic diseases that endanger us as well, because they can't stop screwing around?
So rather get this lot to the northern parts of SA where they can breed like rabbits and do whatever else they like. No free houses in the Cape. Get off your arse and work for it instead of freeloading off the government. Most recipients who get RDP houses rent them out and go back to living in shacks anyhow.
Get rid of BEE, great. Black businessmen are already complaining that Cape Town is not friendly to them. Keep it that way. Our rand is going to become worthless, so it would be a good idea to use methods of barter as you propose in your paper. Buying up gold, as you mentioned, is of course a good idea. Gold could well go up to $2,000 an ounce in the foreseeable future. Paper money has had it, after 2010 it will be downhill for the rand all the way.
PS: I found this article on the St George's University of London home page:
New Hope in the Treatment of Meningitis in AIDS Patients
3 million people died of AIDS in 2003, with 2.3 million people dying in Sub-Saharan Africa alone. One of the most common causes of death in AIDS patients is a very difficult to treat form of meningitis, caused by a yeast-like organism, Cryptococcus neoformans. Unlike drugs for bacterial meningitis, current treatments for cryptococcal meningitis are relatively weak and work by controlling the infection in the cerebrospinal fluid surrounding the brain. This often takes several weeks to work. 20-40 per cent of patients deteriorate and die because of this slow response to treatment and many others are left blind. In research published today in the Lancet, Dr Tom Harrison from the Department of Cellular and Molecular Medicine at St George's Hospital Medical School, and a team of researchers have found a new much more powerful way to test the activity of new drug combinations.
Progress in testing new drugs and combinations of drugs has been extremely slow due to the large number of patients needed for drug trials that rely on looking for a difference in clinical endpoints such as rate of survival.
Dr Harrison and colleagues from St George's Hospital Medical School, doctors from Thailand and doctors from the Wellcome Trust Mahidol University Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Programme in Bangkok have found that by accurately quantifying the number of yeast cells in cerebrospinal fluid, before and during treatment, they were able to calculate, for the first time, the rate at which the infection was killed. Clear differences in the rate of killing with different drug combinations were seen despite the small size of the study. The most effective treatment was a combination of 2 drugs, amphotericin B and flucytosine.
Dr Harrison commented that "The technique can now be used to rapidly test the activity of other drug dosages and combinations. Only the best drug regimes need then be tested in larger trials to show differences in clinical outcome." He also pointed out that "by speeding up the progress of research, the study raises the real prospect of an improved outlook for these patients. The results are particularly timely, given the expanding access to antiretroviral treatment for HIV in many areas of the developing world. Antiretroviral drugs offer the chance of a good long-term prognosis for these patients provided they survive the acute cryptococcal meningitis."
Cryptococcal Meningitis is a disease that has received relatively little attention and funding, but in three separate studies in Africa cryptococcal meningitis was responsible for 13per cent, 17per cent, and 44 per cent of all deaths in HIV-infected patients. This compares with TB, for which treatment is more widely available and effective, which caused six per cent, five per cent and 13 per cent of deaths, respectively.
(Yeah sure, they get this kind of advanced and expensive treatment FREE at all Sub-Saharan hospitals, with dedicated AA nurses working around the clock.}
There are evidence on the ground that the theory of peak oil is at least flawed. F.e. now when the financial bubble burst (after too long a period of artifically low interrest rates completely out of contest with real saving rates) the prize of oil has fallen sharply.
Also there are hordes of new areas being found and developed now especially after a flurry of activity in those matter when the prize was high.
But I don´t want to talk about peak oil, I wan´t to talk about policy ideas. And many of Andrea´s policy ideas are interesting and worth of scrutiny, weather one is agreeing with the secession argument or not.
Sadly it seems to me, I may be wrong though that much of these issues just are not on the hands of the provinces which prevent´s them beeing implemented even at provincial level.
I am going to post those ideas below and my comments below each of them, I would like to hear other people comment on them too and on my comments and how likely the DA is to implement any of them and weather it can legally do that.
Leifur
"1. refused to pay any free water, free electricity?"
If the provicial government could just start upholding the law, wherever in the province, in middle of Cape Town and in the townships this is of course one of the basic things it should also do.
It is probably not very feasible to just suddenly stop delivering water and electricity to them as all hell would break loose, but when some kind of local security and police presence has made those areas safe from crimes installing meters for water and electricity should be the next priority.
Of course that would be a difficult process initially but eventually the people would see the benefits of it when they get uninterrupted and professionally laid electricity and water to their houses/shacks.
Leifur
"2. refused to Provide grants for breeding ignorant, unwanted, hated and unloved children; cause the parents are incapable of doing anything besides pumping and dumpting fornication?"
At least these child grants are an unacceptlable inducement to teenage pregnancy and increases the danger of children beeing raised fatherless and thus more suspectible to go down a path of drugs and crimes.
Instead they should promote that people marry before they have children and could be tweaked so that it pays off to have only one or two children.
So I say that such grants should only be granted to new applicants if they are married (and basically live with their spouse) and that they should only be granted for the first one or two children. But before such laws to be implemented a huge public awareness program needs to take place at least 9 month´s prior to them going into effect.
Decisions about grants are though not on the hand of the provincial government or what?
Leifur
"3. refused to Provide free houses?"
I must say I don´t understand this concept of free houses. It is a project that can never be finished as there is never a shortage of people wanting something for nothing. People that would otherwise live together and share their expenses line up for free housing and then they complain and complain while sitting in the dirt doing nothing.
But if f.e. the residents of the shacks and townships that are not situated to close to highways, airports and so on would be given a title to their plots so they could know they will not be evicted from their shacks they could start building more sturdier houses on their plots. It is not as these people don´t have the time given the high unemployment.
This would also give them the possibility of taking their title to the bank and get a loan with the title as collateral, the better the house on the plot the higher loan, which could be used by the owner to start a business of some kind.
These titles should be given to long term residents of areas so that they will resist new people crowding in on them. New plots could then be sold for low prizes to married people in unsettled areas.
But such a policy would have little effect if new shack settlements and shack settlements in undesired places (long time residents of those could maybe be given preference in new settlements) would not bee rooted up as soon as they are put down by the vagrants.
This is something I believe is at least partly the responsibility of the provincial authority, could the DA implement something akin to this?
Leifur
"4. implemented a law abolishing BEE, and businesses are encouraged to hired employees on their experience and qualification merits only; irrespective of ethnicity, religions etc. The best qualified for the job, get it."
Keep dreaming, it should have been the minimum requirement of the white minority when they gave up power that ALL discrimination should be illegal in the new constitution, completely and without exceptions.
This I understand is not something the province can change, but I understand that they have changed for the better in Cape Town and now hopefully in Western Cape how BEE rules are implemented.
Leifur
"* A free Copper IUD for any and every woman who wants one."
Wow, of course is that a good idea, even though I generally don´t like things to be "free". According to economic models lower birthrates, at least among poor people will benefit their children who will have better living standard as a result of it. That would though require a strict border control.
Here is some information taken from wikipedia:
"The IUD is the world's most widely used method of reversible birth control,[1] currently used by nearly 160 million women (just over two-thirds of whom are in China where it is the most widely used birth control method, surpassing sterilization).[2] Usage in many countries has been measured by surveys of married women of reproductive age. In this population in the early 1990s, IUD use ranged from 1.5% in North America, to 18% in Scandinavia, 33% in Russia and China, and 40% in Kazakhstan.[45] Use in China increased to 45% of married women by 2002.[2]"
So such a policy could help in implementing a kind of "one child policy" among poor people in SA. It would then be preferable if this one child would be raised in a household with a responsible father and mother present. Thus the human capital of the poor could be raised.
Leifur
"* Instead of grants to make babies, grants to women who reach the age of 25, and have refrained from procreation, and instead got an education; as an 'education bonus', which they can then use as a financial nestegg, for when they choose to have a baby."
Hard to implement but an interesting idea. Not part of provincial authorities responsibility I would assume or what? How about education and education grants (which theoretically could have some kind of rules like that), who decides the policy in those matters?
Leifur
"* Progressive Tax Rate for every additional child."
Sorry, but I don´t like progressive Tax Rate period. It makes the system to complicated, even without such child requirements which would complicate matters a lot more. It is not neccasery either to lower the birthrates of richer and educated people as this should be about raising the human capital, that is the quality of the citizenry not making people neccasery fewer.
"* A very frank public conversation of the reality that population policy is the foundation of all other goverment policies, and that population growth, means more crime, more racism, more people fighting over less and less resources."
Depopulation of the west is f.e. a major threat and it seems irreversible when the birth rates of modern societies drop below replacement levels. Sadly due to population pressures from not as modern societies this can lead to dangerous demographic shifts. Well South Africans, you know all about that as the history of SA people in the 20.th century bears witness to.
Leifur
Dachshund
Brilliant post on the Cape idea. Yes we know that since the world had gone off the gold standard that the paper money is worthless in time to come as everything has been artificially inflated to keep things ticking.
AGAIN, I wonder out loud now that the DA is in control of the province - would you think taking an educated guess that they would be thinking of doing it?
What I hated about SA was the fact that nothing worked. If you pointed it out you were a racist. The reality is that the government is so dysfunctional that I fear the entire country could collapse into complete anarchy. As you point out if the money becomes worthless - there would be an uprising. The only way you can provided limited shielding is to cut the social welfare to suppress an uprising.
Pitty this post will move off the front page as it covers a good topic for discussion!
@Anon 11 May 2009 5:25 AM:
I don't know whether the DA is considering secession right now. The Cape Party is a relatively new party. I'm sure Helen Zille will have read the Cape Party's statement on independence as follows. Perhaps we should ask her?
Here is the link:
http://capeparty.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=13
I have copied the section on whether independence for the Cape is legally possible:
1. Is the independence of the Cape really possible?
YES!
The South African Constitution guarantees our right to independence.
The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa:
General Provisions.
Chapter 14.
Article 235
(Acknowledges and guarantees)
“…the right of self-determination of any community sharing a common cultural and language heritage, within a territorial entity in the Republic…”
The Cape:
Is a territorial entity within the Republic. Its ancient borders were first marked by the Khoisan resistance to Nguni migration.
Is home to the unique Cape/Kaaplander culture. A culture established in 1652.
Is home to the unique heritage of the Afrikaans language. A language first recognised in 1707.
Therefore,
The Cape has the right to independence.
International Law guarantees our right to independence.
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, 1976
The United Nations guarantees our right to independence.
UN Charter, Article 1, 1945;
UN General Assembly Resolution 1514, 1960;
Resolution 43/105, 1988;
Resolution 44/147, 1989;
Resolution 47/83 and 47/135, 1992;
Resolution 48/93, 1993
The Cape was independent before 1910
See: History of the Cape
All over the world countries are returning to independence and many have already returned to independence.
Some countries that have already claimed independence:
Pakistan 1947
Cyprus 1960
Singapore 1965
Lesotho 1966
Swaziland 1968
Bangladesh 1973
Czech Republic 1993
Slovakia 1993
Eritrea (Ethiopia) 1993
Hong Kong 1997
Serbia and Montenegro 2006
Kosovo 2008
Some countries that are currently in the process of claiming independence:
Scotland, Britain
Wales, Britain
Quebec, Canada
Flanders, Belgium
Kashmir, India
Southern Sudan, Sudan
Greenland, Denmark
Western Sahara, Morocco
Zanzibar, Tanzania
African Colonies that have already gained independence:
Sudan (1956)
Ghana (1957)
Nigeria (1960)
Tanzania (1961)
Uganda (1962)
Kenya (1963)
Malawi (1964)
Zambia (1964)
Gambia (1965)
Lesotho (1966)
Botswana (1966)
Mauritius (1968)
Swaziland (1968)
Seychelles (1976)
Zimbabwe (1980)
Namibia (1990)
Why not the ‘Cape Colony’?
Since the Union of South Africa in 1910 two of its countries have already reclaimed their independence.
Lesotho in 1966
Swaziland in 1968
The Union of South Africa was a colonial construct forced upon us by the British Empire.
The international community, International Law and the African Charter advocate that imposed colonial constructs are returned to their original components.
See: UN African Charter and History of the Cape
If the Cape Party receives over 50% of the vote in an election within the Cape, we will have received a mandate from the people legitimising the return to independence of the Cape.
Native Kaaplanders are a 75% majority in the Cape. If the Cape voted its cultural constituency the democratic victory would be no less than 3 to 1.
2. Is the independence of the Cape a racist volkstaat like Orania?
NEVER!!!
The Cape and its people are one of the most diverse in the world. The Cape has always been an accepting culture, where all races, religions and orientations have lived side by side in peace and goodwill. A true demographic mix of races and a majority Coloured population in the Cape is testament to the Cape’s culture of racial acceptance and diversity. The Cape Party is a revival of the sentiments of the Torch Commandos protests of 1953 – we will not accept racial discrimination of any shape, shade or form. It did not work in Apartheid. It is not working now. The Cape is the true “Rainbow Nation” and we deserve once and for all to govern ourselves free from the grasp of totalitarian racist governments.
3. Is the Cape sustainable as an independent country?
The Cape is not only a sustainable country but with independence it would flourish and could potentially be one of the top 10 wealthiest countries income per capita in the world.
At present the Cape is being drained of over 75% of its taxes.
That means that right now the Cape is surviving on a quarter of its taxed wealth.
If the Cape returned to independence it would immediately have 4 times more money to spend on its own people than is now being spent by the South African government.
According to the latest data, in 2008 the Gross Domestic Product of the Western Cape was R175 billion. Financial intermediation, insurance, real estate and business services was the largest producing sector at R54 billion. Manufacturing came second at R30 billion. Wholesale and retail trade, catering and accommodation produced R29 billion, followed by an established agricultural, forestry and fishing sector. These are hallmarks of a well balanced first-world economy. This confirms that in spite of the government’s extraction of wealth the Cape is by itself a world class economy.
Compared with some of the most successful economies in the world such as Singapore, Switzerland, Hong Kong and Ireland (high income per capita, low unemployment) the Cape has a distinct advantage in land and resources.
Singapore: only 707 km2 in size, with a population of 4,8million. In 1965 Singapore became independent. They were a handful of destitute islands with mass unemployment, few natural resources and a shortage of land and clean water. Today they are one of the strongest economies in the world with an income per capita of $49 754.
Switzerland: 41 284 km2 in size, with a population of 7,6million. They are a small country surrounded by ice-capped mountains with few natural resources aside from fresh water. They have one of the most stable economies in the world and an income per capita of $42 840.
Hong Kong: 1104 km2 in size, with a population of 6.9million. Hong Kong is a collection of overpopulated mountainous islands with few natural resources. They are consistently ranked as one of the most successful economies in the world with an income per capita of $42 123.
Ireland: 70 273 km2 in size, with a population of 4.4million. Ireland is a high rainfall region that contains moderate resources. Their income per capita is the 7th highest in the world at $42 779.
None of the above countries have the latent potential that the Cape has in land, resources and tourism. The common traits these countries share are good political and economic policies. The Cape has the potential to have one of the highest incomes per capita in the world offering all of its citizens the best standards of living in education, housing, security, employment and health.
The Cape would thrive as an independent country.
4. If I don't live in the Cape will it still benefit me to support the Cape Party?
YES.
First and foremost the Cape Party is a group devoted to the Cape and its people, but our strict policy of good governance is one that will greatly benefit any region in which we are elected.
In a country where we are subjected to the totalitarian and racist rule of one party, Cape Party representatives will fight for what is fair and just in any political position they will hold throughout the Republic of South Africa.
All other parties are trying to gain what little power they can on a national framework and by doing so obediently endorse the majority principles that define our racist government. These parties neglect the local regions that elected them in the hope that they might gain more power nationally. The Cape Party is the only group that can defend what is morally right in a way that all other political parties are incapable of. The Cape Party’s focus is on ‘real politics’ how real people’s lives are affected on the ground from day to day.
An independent Cape would benefit all who live in it, all who might want to live in it in the future and all other nations who want to interact/trade with the Cape.
Following independence:
If you have no criminal record and can offer a good or a service to our economy and our people you will be welcomed into the Cape.
The Cape’s bustling economy will be open to engage freely with any other nation void of any trade barriers or tariffs - a benefit to both the Cape and its trade partners.
A flourishing Cape will be of greater benefit to its friendly neighbours and trade partners than a Cape that is crippled under oppressive control.
Andrea and Leifer: Thanks for comments, intending to incorporate into a new post on the issue of Secession, hopefully soon; just bit busy right now. So, ain't going to let your comments go to dust; cause I agree this is a valuable option that should be further enquired into and debated.
Sorry I meant (Dachshund and Leifer) My blond doozie for the day! ;-) What next?
What and excellent post!
Thanks.
UShaka spoke about driving them back into the sea... very prophetic words indeed. If The cape can be an independent state why not KwaZulu.
An independent cape woul indeed be a welcome move a beginning of the end
Post a Comment