I know many of you have queried me why I permit Greg (Black Coffee) to comment on this blog. It's simple really. As Voltaire (1694-1778) put it: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
If you engage with someone in healthy debate, even if you disagree all the time, over time one may come to see things differently and/or you may convince the other person of your views. If you dismiss them outright what purpose does that serve? We must talk to each other, disagree if we must and provided it is done in a civilised manner, keep talking. Healthy discourse is a good thing.
I recall the days when Greg was absolutely adamant that nothing blacks did was wrong. Everything was the legacy of apartheid or what we said was overblown or we were just racists yearning for the good old days of apartheid. He was very rigid in his views and in many respects he is still like that but perhaps Greg has come around a little - to understand that if he really cares for South Africa as he claims to do, he has to acknowledge what is wrong with it. You cannot truly see Africa through the eyes of a person raised in a First World country fed propaganda all your life.
To ignore our problems is to do the country we love a disservice. Tough love is needed. It pains me to show the world how terrible South Africa has become but tell the world we must. The ANC is immune to the pleas of ordinary citizens but perhaps foreign perceptions may force them to conduct themselves better.
To use an analogy, I see South Africa's problems as a granite mountain and what we and other blogs like ours do is chip away at the mountain until it is gone. We will get there eventually, of that I remain certain but it is a long time away and a lot of work still needs to be done.
Greg was/is simply misinformed on many issues about South Africa and he needs to interact with white South Africans as much as black South Africans to see that whites are not the monsters we were made out to be. Greg has no perspective of the past to present South Africa so it falls on us to tell him. We can see the changes and they are not good but he does not. How would he know? Everything he has been told is from text books or teachings or papers that are biased against white rule in South Africa. But I hold out hope that perhaps Greg will one day come to understand us as can be seen by his comments to a news story he forwarded to me.
Sent in by Greg:-
Message: This I think should be posted. I don't mind saying that I think this is absolutely ridiculous for the students to do this just because there are no funds for them to travel to soccer. Why is the immediate reaction to riot? How about doing something constructive like have a bake sale or something to raise funds? See I remember that most people I came across in SA are very nice, yet I read something like this in news and I just have to shake my head in near disbelief.
I agree Greg - fully.
Pupils in Mthatha have caused more than R100 000 in damage to their school after rioting over not being able to travel to Port Elizabeth to play soccer.
Pupils rioted on Monday morning at a school near Mthatha causing more than R100 000 in damage, Eastern Cape police said.
The pupils at Joyi Secondary School in Baziya, 45km from Mthatha, rioted after they were told by parents and teachers that there was no funding for them to travel to Port Elizabeth to play soccer, Superintendent Mzukisi Fatyela said.
The parents and teachers had met at 08:30 to discuss the situation. When it became clear that no funding was available, an announcement was made to the pupils who responded by throwing stones.
"The parents and teachers who were in the meeting were stoned; they managed to run away from the angry students and locked themselves in some of the classrooms," Fatyela said.
The pupils went on to destroy the staff room and seven classrooms. One of the classrooms was a computer lab. Fatyela said four computers were completely destroyed.
By the time police responded from Mthatha, the pupils had already fled.
Fatyela said a case of malicious damage to property had been opened and police were investigating. Arrests would soon be made, he said.
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18 Opinion(s):
I agree fully with Doberman that opposing views are necessary, otherwise we are merely preaching for the converted here.
"...I read something like this in news and I just have to shake my head in near disbelief..."
Black Coffee, welcome to the sentiment of most white South Africans.
A while back trains were late, and instead of filing a complaint with Metro Rail, two train cars were set alight. Completely distroyed. Of course, there is not going to be trains the next day at all - a bit of logic lost on our black people.
Some situation, different day.
These things happen more often than you'd expect. And it is never white people burning or trashing. Always the blacks. Racist or not, that is a fact...
Such are the days of our lives.
It is a trait of African people that they prefer small but immediate gratification to larger delayed gratification in the ratio of 63:37.
African American Psychology By A. Kathleen Hoard Burlew, Harriette Pipes McAdoo.
This destructive black barbarians represent the future of South Africa.
From personal experience I have given up wasting time having debates about the rights and wrongs of the world. I am in trouble here in SA and my priority is to survive an unbearable situation that has developed in our country. Getting people like Black Coffee to come around is going to take too much time and my problems are immediate.
Black Coffee represents many people out there living in the first world with an opinion about South Africa. Most Americans and Europeans share a similar opinion, which I’ve had the opportunity to have personal discussions with. (I’ve always assumed that the type of person that I’ve encountered and that had the means to travel was better off than the average person and therefore had the luxury of a popular, liberal opinion.) I don’t like Black Coffee and I’ve spent too much time listening to the views that he has expressed while my country was slowly deteriorating to its present state. Had I actually done something sooner, instead of just talking, things may have been different today.
I follow this blog because I get practical tips on my safety, tips on surviving the corrupt politics of the world and sometimes I just like the fact that there are other people around that are just as pissed off as I am about what has happened in SA.
I think it is great that Black Coffee persists on this blog because he is becoming more informed than most people in the first world countries. My hat goes off to you guys for keeping the discussions going. You are better than I am.
bravo once again Doberman for your accurate views. Some of us 'foreigners' do try to interact with white South Africans as much as possible, but if you treat us as though we are taught "propaganda" all our lives, then your barriers will go up and meaningful discussion becomes difficult.
In the "first world" as you put it (which SA was part of until quite recently don't forget), we are taught the liberal arts as they are sometimes known, the most important of which is critical thinking. We may be taught propaganda, but we are not so blind as to be drawn irrevocably into it. Those of us with any intelligence can quickly see where the truth lies if we are open to it.
Now, you lay the blame at the door of "liberals", and that's fair enough. I think the term is often incorrectly used, but that's a subject for another day. The point is that these westerners are usually socialists, and so they are not interested in other points of view. They believe that their way is the only way.
FishEagle, if you ASSUME the foreigner is a "liberal", then you are going to be hostile to him - and if they are a business person chances are they are pretty conservative anyway.
But I do agree with both of you, we are pretty naive, but that's because we don't come from a country where we're outnumbered by black people. Now that things have changed in the last ten years, with mass immigration, we are more and more coming round to your way of thinking.
Giving out about foreigners (and I'm not saying that's what you're doing) isn't going to help anyone. you'll find most foreigners come round to your way of thinking in a very short time. I promise. I did. And you'll find that the most black-loving hippy "liberal" whites in South Africa, are actually South African.
Viking, I have more appreciation for critical thinkers than people that follow blindly. I personally thrive on criticism and like to return the favour to others. I also realize that people can’t be neatly packaged in a box labeled “liberal” or “conservative.” Your comments are very encouraging and give me hope about “foreigners.”
PS. “And you'll find that the most black-loving hippy "liberal" whites in South Africa, are actually South African.” I don’t know if I agree with that one, although I can appreciate some truth in the statement.
thanks, FishEagle.
On the last point, I am sure I am wrong generally, but I have known three people that fit that description, all South African females aged 20-35. And all three extremely goodlooking (what a waste).
I sincerely hope that nothing bad happens to them living amongst the natives as they do, but I do know that one was raped :(
The even more sad thing is that she learnt nothing from this..
Yes, it is sad that beauty does not always go hand in hand with brains. The same applies to guys.
I will try to speak objectively and limit my emotions to the bare minimum because I am also a rape victim, although the circumstances were not a result of racism. Part of the therapy requires that you forgive the rapist and many people confuse this step with giving in to the desires of the rapist because they live with so much fear of that person. In practice it usually means telling the person to go to hell though. Your friend that was raped may still overcome her fears one day but never under estimate the level of fear that a rape victim has to cope with.
On that note, I can say that the experience that I’ve had as a white South African compares pretty much to my personal experience when I was raped. I’m not going to engage in any arguments about this topic because I cannot say that I will remain objective.
@ thanks for your honesty FishEagle. Also not getting into it because I admit I cannot relate in any way.
I will say that the lady in question now has a daughter from the incident, whom she loves very much :)
Ah, I like the ending to your story, Viking.
Mmmhhh - dunno if I ever told you about his threats re the SAS blog, and the ANC.
So much for opposing views...and defending your right...
The only reason they riot and break shit when they don't get their way is because that's the only way they know of to solve their problems. They've grown up on a diet of stories about how their fathers and grandfathers rioted and broke shit in order to get their way.
Why would their behaviour be any better?
I never made any threats about or to the SAS blog, and even if I said some things during heat of moment so to speak, I did not follow through.
@Black Coffee: that's true, although SAS has made a hell lot of threats to people who disagreed with them and they followed through on them too. A more disgusting bunch of foul mouthed trailer trash would be hard to find.
Here is just another useless bit of psychological analysis, which concerns Black Coffee.
When people experiences turmoil or hardship then certain aspects of their lives are disrupted and parts of their emotional development cease. The aim of therapy is to investigate these “dead” areas and to catch up the backlog of development. An example of a dead area could be a rape victim’s sexual development. A “dead” area can be compared to a child within an adult person, which needs to be raised to the person’s physical and emotional level of adulthood. If it does not happen the person is in constant conflict between the adult and child within themselves.
Naturally we all respond by trying to nurture the child to adulthood within ourselves but not everyone succeeds. (This is where a professional therapist comes in handy.) The conflict then has a snowball effect and it affects every aspect of a person’s life. It may become difficult to differentiate between issues within a person’s own life and issues in other people’s lives. That is when people like Black Coffee come out and tries to parent the entire black race when instead he should keep looking within for answers.
Black Coffee needs to have a healthy relationship with himself, with the people around him and with his society. Sadly, I suspect he has none.
@FishEagle
I think you are being very kind :)
I think Greg/Black Coffee should definitely take another trip to SA, and stay for longer. You can read all you like but you need to talk to a good cross-section of society before you can fully develop your opinions.
I have lived in SA for only 18 months (and due back again on 3rd April) and I still don't feel confident enough that I am fully informed. I am quite fully invested in the economy there, so am in for the long haul.
But Greg - if I may call you that - thankyou for persisting and I enjoy reading what you have to say.
@ Viking. Yes, I lost it.
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