Sunday, March 29, 2009

End of Dreamtime

A no holds-barred look at South Africa by the outside world - finally. But is it too late?

From the Daily Mail UK


He has four wives and he faced 783 counts of corruption: Peter Hitchens on South Africa's next president


Once, South Africa dominated the nightly news for weeks on end. Now the liberal media barely mention it. Why not? Because post-apartheid South Africa is a failure.



How distressing to think it might never have come to this if the world had been more critical, and more interested, during the long wasted years of Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki.


Imagine how you would react if Gordon Brown opened and closed his election rallies by bursting into a song called Bring Me My Machine Gun, swaying and jigging to the hypnotic chorus of this menacing ditty.

And how would you feel if the Prime Minister were alleged to be taking campaign money from Colonel Gaddafi; faced 783 counts of fraud, racketeering, tax evasion and corruption which somehow never came to court; and had been
acquitted of rape while his fearsome supporters mobbed the courthouse?

Then ponder how you would despair if, despite all these things, Mr Brown's party was certain to win the election whatever he did or said.

If you can picture all this happening here, then you have an inkling of the horrible process South Africa is now going through. Except it
is much, much worse.

This fast-approaching catastrophe is a source of shame and apprehension to millions of honest people, white and black, in South Africa itself.

It is also a tragedy for Africa as a whole, a continent hungry for any reason to hope. And it is grave news for the civilised world, which needs no more failed states.

Yet I can promise you I will be accused of alarmism and pessi
mism for saying so, and quite possibly of 'racism' too.

Why? All the soppy admirers of Nelson Mandela - especially t
he BBC - gave the new South Africa a free pass when apartheid ended 15 years ago.

They wanted to believe this complicated and important nation had become a sort of heaven on Earth where all tears were dried and all problems solved.

Mr Mandela himself, personally decent but politically ineffectual and naive, served as both figurehead and figleaf for the new order. The world ignored or forgave his continuing friendships with the world's worst despots, and the fraudulent bungling that surrounded him.

Now, looking frail, bemused and ancient, he recently had to be helped on to the stage by his suspect would-be successor, to endorse the grotesque rabble who seek to succeed him.

Once, South Africa dominated the nightly news for weeks on end. Now the liberal media barely mention it. Why not? Because post-apartheid South Africa is a failure.

You don't hear about the terrifying crime. You don't hear about the pestilence of corruption, or the absurd purchase of needless submarines and aircraft for a country with no serious enemies except its own elite.

There is a little about AIDS, but nothing like as much a
s there should be, given the acres of graves that commemorate the government's moronic policies, of denial and folk remedies (including beetroot).

Violent xenophobic rage against uncontrolled mass immigration was played down both in South Africa and abroad because it did not fit the smiley picture beloved by the Mandela worshippers. And little is said about the unstoppable spread of shanty towns, far outstripping state attempts to build proper houses for the poor.

Electricity blackouts - the invariable sign of a country on the slide - are now frequent. The ill-run nuclear power station inherited from the apartheid regime's atom bomb programme is beginning to judder and fail, raising fears of an African Chernobyl.

Then there are the overstretched water supply, the railway system fraying at the edges and the unguarded borders open to migrants and refugees from every destitute nation in Africa.

It is largely thanks to these new arrivals that wretched, instant slums sprout right up to the edge of Cape Town's slick new airport, currently being expensively modernised ready for the World Cup next year during which Mandela groupies will doubtless once again swoon about the 'success' of the Rainbow Nation.

Of course much of tourist South Africa still looks like the American West Coast: smooth six-lane highways, shopping malls, big houses in shady gardens, all tended by cheap black servants.

But close to the prettiness is fear and apprehension. Even in the lovely Cape wine country, squatter camps have erupted on the outskirts of towns where chefs drizzle olive oil on to fancy salads less than a mile from open sewers and gang wars among corrugated iron shacks.

Here is another world, much bigger than the tourist para
dise, and truly, cruelly poor.

It is also increasingly hostile to the soft enclaves where the new rich and the holidaymakers are apparently oblivious of the filth, hunger, alcoholic stupor, drug-taking and wretchedness which lie just the other side of every hill.

Like ice and fire, these two societies cannot coexist forever, and when one is 40 million strong and the other one tenth of that, there is little doubt which will win. The only question is how and when the dreamtime will en
d.

In the coming weeks, South Africa seems to me to be takin
g several definite steps towards its cold, shocking awakening - as a full member of the Third World.

The man who will lead it there is called Jacob Zuma. Remember the name. You are going to hear a lot more of it.

Zuma is wholly African. He has at least four wives and 18 children. He has for years avoided standing trial on fraud and corruption charges. Nobody seriously believes he ever will: his approaching election is already spreading fear in South Africa's legal establishment.

Mr Zuma joined the Communist Party in 1962 (he only left a few years ago), and has a dark and inadequately examined past as a much-f
eared intelligence chief in the ANC's ruthless armed wing, Spear of the Nation. He underwent 'military training' in the old Soviet Union in 1978, when the KGB was very much in charge of such things.

On April 22 he will become President of one of the world's most important countries.

Comrade Zuma, as his supporters know him, certainly is no
t dull. And South Africa will not be dull either when he takes over.

Many fear it will rapidly become a lawless kleptocracy when he comes to power, which he will do after a hopelessly one-sided and rather crooked election.

The grisly Winnie Mandela, a convicted fraud with a creepy past, is number five on the ANC's parliamentary election list, despite the fa
ct that as a criminal she is legally banned from being an MP. She is expected to be a minister in any Zuma government.

Zuma's old friend and business partner, Schabir Shaik, has just been released early - on medical grounds, although almost nobody believes this - from a 15-year sentence imposed in 2006 for fraud and corruption, including a payment to Zuma himself.

Jackie Selebi, the National Police Commissioner, is famous for asking, 'what's all the fuss about?' when taxed with the country's appalling levels
of crime and violence.

He is currently suspended, accused of having - yes - a 'generally corrupt relationship' with a convicted drug smuggler and also 'defeating the ends of justice'.

The once-admired Scorpions, a police anti-corruption squad symbolising the country's determination not to follow the rest of Africa into corrupt squalor, have been disbanded.

So the approaching enthronement of this sinister, populist one-time Zulu herd-boy really ought to mark the moment when South Africa has to stop dreaming about rainbows and miracles, and recognise that experience is usually a better guide to the future than hope.

Zuma is attractive in some ways. He has made his way up from utter poverty. He is a fighter, a keen and hypocrisy-free lover of women and a cunning charmer.

He makes no pretence of being Westernised, and delights in we
aring traditional Zulu dress, leopardskin, loincloth and all. He has an excellent singing voice, as I can testify.

He comes from the deep heart of Zululand, where his home is surprisingly modest but guarded by a modern security fence. It lies in the Nkandla district, in the lovely Zulu highlands a morning's drive from the Victorian battlefields of Isandlwana, where the Zulus destroyed a British army, and Rorke's Drift, where a small British force survived against enormous odds.

South Africa's largest tribe are a proud fighting people, and Zuma will not be a mild leader, as Mandela and Thabo Mbeki, his two forerunners, were.

This, not the far-off world of Cape Town, is the real South Africa. It is currently tense and frightening, as well as obviously poor and ravaged by AIDS.

Young men, brought up in the warrior spirit, wander in angry
and resentful groups, strikingly unlike the more peaceful Xhosas to the south.

My Zulu guide, Emmanuel, is afraid I might be mistaken for a policeman or rival political campaigner, so he lends me his jacket so I'll blend in better, and is pleased when our car is caked with red mud, as he is afraid it looks too much like a police vehicle.

This area is generally run by the Zulu nationalist Inkatha Party, and opponents have died at their rallies. Interlopers are unwelcome.

There are Zuma posters, but the ANC - mistrusted here as a mainly Xhosa party - has to come into these districts under heavy police escort. The posters are nailed on electricity poles about 15ft up, to stop Inkatha militants tearing them down.

'People around here will vote for Zuma because he is a Zul
u, but in spite of the fact that he is from the ANC,' one local explains.

The idea that tribal loyalty doesn't matter any more in South Africa, spread for years by blinkered optimists, seems absurd here - and tribal rivalry might well play a part in the more troubled future, as it has everywhere else in Africa.

This is also a very old-fashioned place, where the price of a wife is still 11 cows, and polygamy is normal.

Zuma has already considered how to cope with this tricky detail when working out which of his wives will be his First Lady. He explains: 'There is no First Lady. If there is an occasion, one day we will have the wife we a
re with, another day we will have another one.'

He defends his domestic arrangements by saying of his more conventional critics: 'Many of them have wives, girlfriends and children that they try to hide. I love all my wives and children and I'm proud of them, so I'm completely open about it.'

Several of his wives praise Zuma as a family man. Alas for
him, another has indicted him from beyond the grave.

Kate Mantsho, mother of five of his children, killed herself with an overdose in 2000, and left a devastating suicide note denouncing him. In one harrowing passage she said: 'I hope it is true we will meet again - but not as husband and wife. I dare not take that chance again due to the bitter and most painful 24 years of married life I have gone through.'

South African coverage of this event was muted, and many journalists denounced the small newspaper that broke the story.

Zuma himself has carried on as if Kate's note had never been published. He is above all a Zulu, a man who holds to ancient traditions and customs. Whatever he can be accused of (and it is quite a lot) he is not an urba
n liberal.

He once spoke of how, in his youth, he would knock down any 'pansy boy'. He has also said same-sex marriage was a 'disgrace to the nation'.

He has hinted he might restore the death penalty. He is keen on traditional medicine men. He thinks teenage unwed mothers should have their babies taken away; that school prayers should be compulsory and that there is too much sex on TV.

He completely lacks the Westernised polish and smoothness of Mandela and Mbeki. His political party, the African National Congress, sometimes seems aghast that it has chosen him as leader. Too late.

The ANC's gruesomely Stalinist communist faction, the most powerful communist party outside China, thought they could use him as a batt
ering ram against the more cautious Mbeki, a cold and solitary academic.

Mbeki sought above all to keep Western investors happy, thus disappointing the communist radicals who wanted to invest in socialist projects. They hoped they could control Zuma or perhaps push him aside after he had done their dirty work. But he is far cleverer than he looks.

At first sight he is the jovial double of the Michelin man, bald, bespectacled and wide-mouthed. As he campaigns, he wears a Nelson Mandela T-shirt (his aides sport Jacob Zuma shirts) and a bizarre black leather cowboy hat.

I watched him electioneering in and around the bleak and s
tony town of Springbok, in South Africa's remote and conservative North West.

He arrived for a carefully staged visit to Elizabeth Cloete, a 49-year-old who dwells on an arid hillside in a hovel made of plastic sheets, and lives by scrabbling through rubbish dumps looking for saleable scrap - a
trade that brings her about £6 a week.

Her neighbourhood is the bitter end of rural South Africa, many of whose inhabitants exist, in a permanent haze of cheap drink or drugs, defeated and without hope.

Zuma must know that places like this, and their still crueller and more violent urban equivalents, are evidence of the ANC's failure, in 15
years of unrestricted power, to keep its ambitious promises to the poor.

He actually admitted later that day: 'We came here to see the conditions. The conditions are extremely bad.'

But when I tried, courteously, to speak to him on the spot, having failed to obtain an interview over several weeks, he brushed me aside. Worse, I was menacingly reproved
by an ANC apparatchik, outraged that I should dare to question the next President.

I was also upbraided by a smug, dreadlocked member of the Johannesburg Press corps who sneered at me, 'This is Africa, man, we do things differently here.' They certainly do.

Zuma's admission that conditions are dreadful was about the only truthful thing in his speech, made to a few thousand listless supporters in a bleak rugby stadium on the edge of town, after efforts to work them into a frenzy had failed.

'Viva ANC!' shouted the master of ceremonies. No response. 'Viva Zuma!' No response.

And you can't blame them.

Speaking in English, the future President has all the charisma of an ashtray. The scripted slogans fall from his lips like blobs of cold porridge. He talks of the fight against crime as if he were not himself overshadowed by criminal charges and the unabashed friend of convicted crooks.

As he drones, the chatter from the audience becomes almost deafening. Most of them do not speak English anyway.

He wins a little applause for claiming that corrupt officials will be removed. One departing member of the crowd openly sniggers as Zuma declares: 'We don't want people to say that the ANC is a corrupt organisation because of corrupt individuals.'

But the multitude springs back into life when Zuma switches to his native Zulu and, in a rich and powerful baritone, begins to sing the song with which he will always be associated, dancing and swaying as he does so.

Bring Me My Machine Gun is surprisingly catchy, and easy to join in. It only has two lines, and the second goes, rather politely, 'Please bring me my machine gun.'

What is he doing here, in this arid dorp halfway to Nigeria? The truth is that the ANC faces a rebellion, and is trying to quell it with a mixture of power and pay-outs.

A breakaway, called the Congress of the People (COPE), has just scored surprisingly well in council by-elections near Springbok. Zuma's allies, furious that for the first time they face serious opponents, have let their rage show in ways which have rightly scared many peaceful South Africans.

The ANC youth league chief Julius Malema, a portly young loudmouth with a gift for rabble-rousing, has declared that his movement was ready to 'take up arms and kill for Zuma'. He has since been made to apologise, but many are unconvinced.

Another ANC youth league militant said COPE 'behave like cockroaches and they must be destroyed'.

The word 'cockroaches' leaves a specially nasty taste in Africa. Hutu fanatics repeatedly used the same insult to describe their Tutsi neighbours in Rwanda, shortly before the 1994 massacres that horrified the world.

No African is unaware of this. Allan Boesak, a leading figure in COPE, told me the ANC tries to silence his party by the crudest methods.

He warns that a Zuma government will mean 'far more concentration of socialist power, less democracy, new laws to curtail the Press'.

He also claims the ANC tried to recruit him as a parliamentary candidate, assuring him it had plenty of money for his campaign - including cash from the Libyan leader, Colonel Gaddafi.

'They think they own democracy,' he says, and adds that public officials who endorse COPE are harassed and denounced by colleagues: 'When we try to book a venue, the hall is always "under repair", or if that fails they organise discos next door to drown out our speakers.'

In Springbok, the COPE offices are just down the road from the ANC headquarters. Painted on the side of the COPE building is a large arrow pointing directly at the ANC building, and the words: 'Tell no lies'.

The ANC response has been cynical beyond belief. Ever since COPE did well in local polls, ANC officials have been promising free food parcels to those who stay loyal to them. Regrettably, the tactic has already won back significant support.

Judging by the Springbok rally's warm response to Jacob Zuma's sing-song and the food parcel strategy, the ANC steamroller will triumph here and almost everywhere else.

The one place most likely to resist is the Western Cape, the area round Cape Town itself and the heartland of Helen Zille, the popular and effective mayor of Cape Town and leader of the Democratic Alliance.

She knows the Alliance must break out of being nothing more than a white liberal party. But alas she is a white liberal, albeit a very impressive one. I caught up with her at Stellenbosch University, where she was speaking to an almost wholly white student audience, switching easily from English to Afrikaans.

Unlike Zuma, she is a witty, fluent orator. She does not break into song, and critics joke that if she did it would be 'Bring me my cappuccino' rather than 'Bring me my machine gun'.

Her aides, however, point out that she also speaks fluent Xhosa, Nelson Mandela's language, and that many of her meetings are full of black and brown faces.

But her cogent message really appeals only to the well-educated, who are not influenced by tribal loyalties, or open to bribery. Her words are heavy with fear for the future.

'The closed crony system,' she warns, 'leads to power abuse and eventually to a criminal state.'

She urges her supporters to concentrate on reducing the ANC's vote and get it used to the idea of real democracy. Otherwise it will misuse its excessive power - something she warns 'inevitably leads to Zimbabwe'. Liberation movements such as the ANC, she says, make bad democratic governments because they believe their goal is to seize power.

The diagnosis is impressive, cool and clear. The cure: a real law-governed democracy, is attractive. But the prognosis - a rigged and menacing election, a government founded on lawlessness and an uneducated, cunning new leader, an African 'Big Man' with his roots in tribe and tradition - is not so good.

How distressing to think it might never have come to this if the world had been more critical, and more interested, during the long wasted years of Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki.

Wide-eyed idealism has let us down again, as it always does.

It was not, as the fashionable people claimed, a fairy story. History did not stop when Nelson Mandela ended his long walk to freedom. They are not all going to live happily ever after.


30 Opinion(s):

Anonymous said...

For those who thought that big western capital wasn't the real enemy, remember why they had to kill Verwoerd, why they had to install a bunch of criminal fortune seeking ANC "members" in government and why they had to kill Hani:

"SA to forego $359m in new minerals law
March 29, 2009

By Wiseman Khuzwayo

The South African government would forego an estimated $359 million (R3.4 billion) to $499 million a year in revenue from unrefined minerals - based on earnings for unrefined and refined metals in 2006 - by lowering royalties to the lower rates proposed in the third draft of the new law to govern mineral and petroleum royalties."
IOL

The Central Bank owners in Europe, the UK and the US also own the mining companies!
White Africans have long been their scape-goat!
Our Land (and power over us) has long been the price for their continued milking of minerals in Southern Africa.

Best Regards
Common Sense

Black Coffee said...

This is one particular journalist's opinion. I would not yet go so far as to say that "post-apartheid South Africa is a failed state." Rather, it is still a work-in-progress, IMHO.

Doberman said...

@ BC

And yours is but another ONE opinion versus a growing chorus of people stating the opposite. Methinks, the opinion of an experienced correspondent who has been around the block a few times trumps you any time.

C'mon, tell us, when will you stop crowing from the safety of Cincinnati and come live in SA? Enough with the armchair politicking. Come live the new SA first hand and bring along family and friends. Bring everything and then we can talk on equal footing.

Liezel said...

Exactly what Doberman said, Black Caffeine!

I want to see you live in SA. I want to see you work in SA, pay taxes in SA, commute to work everyday amongside taxi's in SA.>
I want to see how you cope after your first mugging, later your first home invasion, your first car hi-jack.
I want to see you reason with your black boss. I want to see you when the electricity goes down for the hundredth time.
I want to see how you reason with your armed robber when they hurt you and your family in front of you.
Threatening to murder and torure them with hot irons, stoves, you name it!
I want to see how you cope with dirty water coming through the taps. I want to see you without a foreign passport.
I also want to see how you get things done with Telkom, local goverment and especially your dealings with the police.

After all that, I want to hear what you have to say about progress. Can you imagine now what you would say?
I don't think so.

Black Coffee said...

Liezel - first of all I commuted every day for 6 months inside the taxis, not alongside of them in the luxury of my own vehicle. That does not make me an expert, but it does count for something. As for the rest, are you saying that every single South Africa goes through these things? If so, why are ANY South Africans still alive? What's your comment about reasoning with a black boss about? How is it any different than reasoning with a white boss? Finally, to both you and Doberman I have said that I would be willing to live in SA for a year or two if I am able to find a professorial position in SA there upon completing my PhD. Besides, are you two posting from within SA or from the supposed "safety" of Australia?

Doberman said...

@ BC

Easy there little fella. Perhaps we are not selfish minded like you are. Unbeknown to many, I've just recently returned from 45 days in Joburg where I have family, friends, property and professional interests. I worry about them all the time. Getting a phone call late at night means only one thing - it is someone from SA calling - and your mind races as to the reason for the call. It is a fear you can't relate to.

We live outside SA not by choice but because we must - to survive. We have kids and it would be irresponsible to risk their lives in that environment.

Clearly you have no kids so don't even TRY and understand what it feels like to worry about whether you will see your wife and kids later when they leave the house. Fuck that sonny boy. That will get my goat so don't go there.

Living in SA "one or two years" means FUCK ALL if it is just YOU. Bring pops and momma, any nephews, sisters etc etc. Bring all your assets. STAY for good. Renounce your US citizenship and only then THINK you are close to being on our level.

Don't be a wise ass. You'll lose every time.

Black Coffee said...

Doberman - you are right, I do not have kids. One makes certain sacrifices to get a PhD sometimes. Anyway, at a certain level I can't relate, but when I was in SA I did meet people there who have kids and families. So people do manage to cope somehow. As for not knowing whether you will see your wife and kids again when they leave - that is a risk anywhere, it is a matter of degree and I suppose the degree of risk in SA is greater than in a lot of other places. I noticed when I was in SA, much of that time in Johbg, that in evenings even in relatively well-off suburbs like Sandton and Rosebank one sees a lot of people walking around in the malls, where people can get out of their cars and walk into the mall which have restaurants, nightclubs, etc. However, I saw almost no one walking around on residential streets. So an honest, curious question - if you live in an area like Rosebank or Sandton and want to go for an evening stroll can one do so in relative safety? As to the article posted here, maybe it is wishful thinking on my part, but I still believe that SA will make progress and that better days are ahead, while this article reads like it is full of Afro-pessimism.

Doberman said...

@ BC

I have to view you as someone who has worked his life towards a goal of living in SA. To that end you have interviewed, met many South Africans and even spent time in SA. Am I correct in saying that your PhD has something to do with South Africa, something regarding its history? Well then, hearing about your dream country imploding before your eyes cannot be a pleasant thing. If what we are saying is correct (and believe me we are), that it is indeed an unpleasant place, that it is dangerous, etc etc, what then becomes of your plans as you near the end of your studies, as you approach 40, as you seek to set off and start your career at some academic institution in South Africa? Not good.

Does denying the truth make it better for you? Does ignoring the warnings from South Africans make it better for you?

Or would it not be better for you to heed the warnings, to question what you THINK you saw during your trip and what your black friends said to you? You admit having spoken to virtually no white people during your visit so your perceptions are lopsided are they not?

Open your mind and l-i-s-t-e-n is all I can tell you. It might just save your life one day while you walk down that residential road in Rosebank where everything looks 'normal'.

WHITEADDER said...

This Black Coffee guy is a political agitator that is poluting this site. No sane, true argument will get through. Best is not to waste any time on creatures like that.

Anonymous said...

There is no afro-pessimism, there is just African reality. That is the reality everyone lives in.

You have supposedly been there for more than a year and you have not been able to figure out why people don't walk around in their neighborhoods at night?

Are you shitting me?

Anonymous said...

My prediction is that SA will, within the next ten years, explode into violence as seen all over Africa.
This article describes the situation here very well.
@BG: Since you are still a student the chances stand very good that you will see it happen but only on condition that you stay outside of SA. Inside SA you may not live that long!

Anonymous said...

American Jew "Black Coffee" only wrote what he did to distract from THE TRUTH getting out.
Ask yourselves, who actually took in what Common Sense wrote, and who was distracted by the mole?

Black Coffee said...

Doberman - of course my dissertation pertains to SA history, specifically to black South African views of the US during the latter phase of apartheid. I did interview 2 white people and had regular discussions with white Wits University professors. I mentioned that on Rosebank's residential streets everything looked normal EXCEPT for the fact that there were no pedestrians. I remember one time me and several people I met went for a night on the town. One of the people was a white guy who had recently relocated to Johbg from Cape Town to start a job. We dropped him off at his house in Rosebank for 2 minutes so he could pick something up, and the eery feeling I got was there was no one walking around, though a few blocks down in Rosebank mall there were plenty of people. Of course there, as I said, they are able to get out of their car, parked in a garage with a security guard on duty, and walk right into the mall with all its restaurants, News cafe, etc. That's why I was asking whether it is safe to walk around Rosebank, Sandton, etc. I suspect that it is not but what do you expect considering the proximity of these places to neighborhoods like Hillbrow and Alexandra? I have heard though that if you move over to Western Cape, especially to Stellenbosch, which I did not get a chance to visit, people live there in regular houses like in America without all the elaborate gates and armed response walls that I saw in Joburg's northern suburbs. As for my perceptions being "lopsided" - I doubt it. It's always good to question one's perceptions, but you and others here need to realize that apartheid is over and that it is the black majority that is going to move SA forward. There is a role for whites, but whites have to actively assist the transformation instead of blocking every attempt at transformation.

Scorpion said...

To Black Coffee

Let us regress from this argument a moment and look at Africa with Anonymous at 07:50's quote in mind:

"...explode into violence as seen all over Africa..."

This is a statistical fact, and any which way you phrase it, the truth stays the same. No African country has ever survived a black government and came out better than before, more advanced, with better infrastructure, less crime, less corruption etc.

Under black rule the bad gets worse and the good soon turns sour.

As much as we all hope and pray for a miracle of a better SA sometime in the future, the fact remains that as long as we have a black government, more so one lead by a dubious character with hundreds of charges of corruption against him, this country is not going to get better.

One can sadly understand the ignorance of the uneducated masses loyal to the ANC, but as an educated man, who studied SA, blacks, post-apartheid etc, why on earth do you think that South Africa UNDER BLACK RULE will be an exception to the rule of Post Colonial Africa?

As Doberman constantly reminds you “...Open your mind and l-i-s-t-e-n…” and s-e-e the writing on the wall.

All the signs are there that things are not improving in SA, on the contrary. The only time things will improve under the ANC is the day Zuma admits to being a criminal and steps down, which will be the first cold day in Hell, incidentally.

Black Coffee said...

Scorpion - if a black government is doomed to fail than explain why Botswana has remained relatively successful since ending British "protection" in 1966? I know that De Beers is still the main company that operates there and brings in income from diamond mines, but the point is they do it under a black government. Also, there has been no civil war or implosion in Botswana, even though the government does treat the San or "bushmen" people there in questionable ways to say the least. But you get my point here - the concrete example of Botswana, not some dream situation, blows out of the water the theory that if a country is under a black government it is doomed to failure.

FishEagle said...

Black Coffee you have not seen what the infrastructure looks like in Botswana. You don't know about the poor service delivery and all the rest of it.

You can’t believe that the majority of blacks will move SA forward because that is a RACIST STATEMENT.

Black Coffee said...

Fish Eagle - true I have not seen first-hand the infrastructure of Botswana, I did not get to go there personally. I am going off statistics and what I have been told. As for my comments regarding black majority - there was no racism there, merely stating that blacks are the majority of SA, SA will never revert back to apartheid and whites can and should be part of the transformation. However, I also think, and I myself could get perceived as a "paternalist" here - but so be it, that blacks and other South Africans must start holding their government accountable. I believe the same applies to other African countries. The day will come I think when African populations will wake up to the fact that their governments have been corrupt and have kept their people distracted by always pointing at colonialism. Don't get me wrong, I am not back-pedaling here, I believe colonialism and apartheid were wrong. But they were episodes in history and African governments can not forever use them as crutches and excuses for their own misgovernance. Too often though, much like Arab governments keep their people distracted by pointing to Israel as culprit of all their problems, African governments simply point to legacy of colonialism. While pointing to legacy of colonialism has some merit, at some point Africans have to take responsibility for their governments' actions. After all, how do other countries which were once colonies, like Vietnam, get ahead?

Anonymous said...

Black Coffee, re. Botswana you said it yourself: "the people there treat the San very questionably"...
the San are the only minority Nation in Botswana. The "people" you refer to are all Tswana, which is why it is peaceful (along with Lesotho and Swaziland)...
SO YOU ADMIT, APARTHEID (each Nation to their own country) CREATES THE ONLY PEACEFUL COUNTRIES IN AFRICA!

As Verwoerd said, when the Bantu Nations are each left to their own countries, they can live in peace!
SA has far too many Nations to ever be peaceful!

FishEagle said...

Black Coffee, Your statement was racists because you discriminated against the individuals who were making a contribution to South Africa, helping it to “move forward,” regardless of their race.

Your demands that the public should hold their government accountable are impotent, since you’ve never had experience with the primitive general population in South Africa. Your interviews don’t count as experience.

Black Coffee said...

So you believe that the general population of SA is primitive? Thank you for sharing your true views of your fellow country-people.

FishEagle said...

What I think about SA does not concern you at all.

Liezel said...

>Liezel - first of all I commuted every day for 6 months inside the taxis, not alongside of them in the luxury of my own vehicle.That does not make me an expert, but it does count for something.

Yes, since you've had this 6 month experience. what did you think of their driving skills. How would you rate their way of abiding to traffic rules, with other Western countries like America? Do they drive similar?
Please don't compare it to other African countries, because you see in former years, traffic control and traffic rules used to be abided by as is done in Europe, Australia and America. Now it is coming down to African standards (aka chaos). Which is fine for you, but quite a sad case of standards-drop to us who experienced the well organised system which existed before. So clearly f-all progress made in that department.

>As for the rest, are you saying that every single South Africa goes through these things?

Did I say that? No I didn't. But nowhere else in the world are the chances greater of these things happening to you.

I know people who experienced almost everything i mentioned. I experienced many of these things myself. I have family and friends in SA who experienced it as well. Something else, you cannot relate to, but definitely will be able to once you move yourself over there for some time.

>If so, why are ANY South Africans still alive?

Amazingly, the white population of SA is going down everyday my friend. You just don't physically see it, but it is happening. Whites there do not multply as fast as blacks. They get murdered, they leave the country and they are certainly having less kids. Maybe 1 or 2 at the most. (Like civilised Western countries, because we are civilised, and our country USED TO BE civilised.) Blacks kill blacks at high rates too and population boom, plus the numbers of illegals coming over the borders really make it hard for that population growth to go down!
So, that answers that weird question...

>What's your comment about reasoning with a black boss about?

Exactly. You don't know because you haven't experienced AA. You got to try it sometime. You in all your liberal glory will be seen as a racist no matter how polite you are! Have fun working for one, when you get the chance to.

>How is it any different than reasoning with a white boss?

You will have a hard time believing me because you haven't been in the situation. But it is like reasoning with a stubborn babboon who thinks you are a racist if you disagree with anything he says.

>Finally, to both you and Doberman I have said that I would be willing to live in SA for a year or two if I am able to find a professorial position in SA there upon completing my PhD.

Good. It will be a good experience to compare your views before and after your experience. Just a shame you tend to compare SA as it is now, to other African countries. Obviously SA looks like paradise to the rest of Africa.

I think this is probably one of the main reasons yourself and the rest of us here on this blog, do not see eye to eye on many things: Your point of reference is completely different to ours. We grew up in a South Africa which compared with the best of European civilisation. We use this as reference. You use other African countries as a reference. SA looks good against other African countries, but SA looks like a horrible mess against it's former self.

>Besides, are you two posting from within SA or from the supposed "safety" of Australia?

I'm posting from within the wonderful civilised safety of New Zealand actually. I didn't emigrate for fun or wonderlust though. I didn't come here beacause I had a burning desire to live in New Zealand either. But I do have a burning desire to live a worthwhile life in a society where a life still means something. I came here for a better future and to live a life that suits my values and standards best.
I grew up in SA went to school and worked there until 2002, when I came very close to being killed in my own home (by a bunch of BLACK criminals). I experienced the fast decay that set in in 90's. I noticed the fast drop in civilised standards.
You didn't.

By 2002, that gun against my head, was the final straw for me after a range of unfortunate events - each one caused by a black - interesting coincidence. I was lucky to be left alive. LUCKY.
I prefered not to live in a third-world society where life is worth less than a mobile phone. I prefer to continue my life in a 1st world country, like the one I was brought up in. I'm proud I left, I value my own life more than dying for no reason at the hands of violent stupid criminals.

I don't see you as someone who will change his mind about all of this, just because of what we bloggers write here. The only way you might, is, if you are put through similar experiences that we have been put through. You and most liberal outsiders will simply never realise our side of the story any other way. Therefore, I don't want to continue trying to explain myself to you. I invite you to put action to your words and go and live there for a few years. Talking to you anymore about this before you've lived a little there, serves no purpose. It's like selling ice to an eskimo.
You are the eskimo, Greg ;-)

On another more important note: Great article! The world is slowly waking up to the mess that is Zuma and the ANC. I hope the British and European reporters will report on SA's decay more and more with this election and the world cup coming up. May the truth about blacks in goverment continue to be known to the world.

FishEagle said...

Liezl, I think most people on this blog can relate to your reasoning. Sorry to hear about your bad experience with crime.

Vanilla Ice said...

I'm a little late to this party but I am sure I have commented before on BC's perpetual harping on about working towards a Ph.D. I still maintain that he is a charlatan. His style of writing, his level of reasoning and his commitment to uncover truth lacks the kind of quality or maturity I am accustomed to seeing from real Ph.D candidates. I suspect that somehow he thinks that by going on about making a sacrifice for a Ph.D, he somehow seems more credible. Give me a break. Reminds me of the old saying "How do you know somebody has an MBA?" "They will tell you."

FishEagle said...

Vanilla Ice,

".....His style of writing, his level of reasoning and his commitment to uncover truth lacks the kind of quality or maturity."

Ditto!

Interesting comment about an MBA.

Scorpion said...

To Black Coffee re Botswana and FishEagle's comment:

"you have not seen what the infrastructure looks like in Botswana. You don't know about the poor service delivery..."

My point stands regarding black governments, ta FishEagle.

And since you are so statistically inclined, lets look at the statistical fact that Botswana has the second highest HIV infection in the world, after Swaziland.

http://www.avert.org/aidsbotswana.htm

Now is this higher than, say, 10 years ago, or lower? Is that better than before, or worse, like I said?

And does this confirm my statements regarding black governments' ineptitude, or yours regarding their worth?

Given a choice BC, seriously now, would you choose a Black Government over a White Government anywhere in the world? Or do you, after all, prefer the competency of whites?

Black Coffee said...

Scorpion - I am aware of Botswana's AIDS problem. They most likely got this problem from other countries in the region. The AIDS problem in South Africa in fact started growing under the white government, by the time De Klerk's term was nearing its end - 1992-93 there were quite a few articles about it in the "Star" and probably other papers that I have not had a chance to look through. The skin color of those in charge has nothing to do with competency, just as, all of Vanilla Ice's posts notwithstanding, there is no correlation between IQ and race. By the way, I am a PhD student but I do not need to prove it to you. My interest is the truth and in that interest I have condemned the ANC when they deserved it, like with their recent decision to not let Dalai Lama into SA.
Liezel - I am sorry that the incident happened to you, but it is no reason to hate all blacks. I was mugged by 2 blacks in Johbg and I was mad as hell at the 2 who mugged me, but I did not project that on to any other black who had nothing to do with it, not even the vendors who stood around and did nothing to help. Everyone has their own reasons for moving, my parents moved from the Soviet Union to escape anti-Semitism there, among other reasons. But there is crime everywhere, though certainly not at rate of SA. Of course, there are countries out there safer than the US, perhaps New Zealand is one of those. As for my experiences in taxis, one time the driver headed into oncoming lane to get around traffic. I had also been on a few taxis where driver cut off other motorists, but for the most part it was all good.

FishEagle said...

Black Coffee, no they most likely got the problem from having unprotected sex.
The extent of the aids problem cannot be blamed on the white government because most African countries have a high infection rate.
You may have an interest in the truth, however, it is a very poorly developed interest that has caused your peers irritation only.
You assume people on this site hate all blacks even though you know that each person should be treated as an individual.

Vanilla Ice said...

@ Fish Eagle. I didn't mean to disparage any MBA holders, I have one .... oops, there you go. Just my experience.

@ Black Coffee, as regards your comment "there is no correlation between IQ and race", fuck me but you must be an affirnative action Ph.D candidate. Let me steer you in the right direction, stay away from MSM publications and read peer reviewed scholarly works by Herrnstein, Murray, Lynn, Nisbett, Rushton, Jensen, Sowel, Pinker .... I could go on ad infinitum. To openly make a statement like that when you claim to be a Ph.D student is stupid.

Shame on the selection committee for accepting your research proposal, if you know what that is. But if you are a scholar don't squander your opportunity, make an original and meaningful contribution, show a little pride and publish something that will be taken seriously by high IQ peers, instead of just your "dance around the fire" buddies. Make sure it is worthy of being used as something more than just toilet paper.

FishEagle said...

@Vanilla Ice. I am too ignorant to appreciate your experience in business or finances; however, your thoughts still carry weight with me.