Sunday, May 25, 2008

So many questions with Ronnie Kasrils


Meet South Africa’s ...wait for it... “Munista for National Intelligence”. Ha ha ha ha.

The South African gubbermunt – stocked with turds, the lot of them. Read the utter shite this munista spews in this interview.

He couldn’t find his backside in the dark with both hands. Yeesh...

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Two years ago the Minister of National Intelligence Ronnie Kasrils said its mandate was to foresee and predict threats to national security. In light of the current violence, Chris Barron asked him ...

Did you see this coming?

No, of course we can’t say that we saw coming what are tactical operations on the ground.

What do you mean “tactical operations”?

If you’re trying to assess and predict operational action, then you’ve got to have somebody within the particular planning group, and I can’t claim that.

What planning group? Are you suggesting this was not spontaneous?

Well, if it’s spontaneous, there’s spontaneity. You get angry outbursts or you get some semblance of an organisational hand, of people who have an agenda. What we’re seeing here is a repetition, almost a cloning, of the situation of 1990 to 1994.

Are you suggesting third force involvement?

No, we would really need the facts to substantiate that. I don’t have that. But there are certainly indications of organisation on the ground in a number of these areas.

Is this linked to any political party?

There is nothing that shows that at present.

Essop Pahad referred to right-wing elements. Is there any evidence of this?

What we do have is some revival of extreme right-wing revanchism, with the objective of some kind of revenge, of turning the clock back.

Do you have any evidence that it’s connected in any way to the current violence?

No. What we need to do is see whether we can join those dots. We see, on the surface, that there is a duplication of what happened in the early ’90s. We know that there were political elements behind that. Are those same trigger elements in place now? We’d be naive to just write that off.

Isn’t this just a red herring to divert us from government incompetence?

I wouldn’t say it is being raised to divert attention. It is being raised to remind us that there is complexity here, that there are other forces engaging with this. We need to at least check that out.

In the absence of any evidence of that, what else are we talking here?

This could simply be linked to xenophobia and a quick, opportunistic motive for gain. And that’s criminality.

Is this your assessment of the violence?

We have to obviously search for the bigger picture, analyse it and say that as a result of migration, of deprivation and expectation in a very deprived arena, you can then expect that something can happen.

So why didn’t you expect it?

We were expecting that maybe this could lead to something further. But unless you’re very close in a spontaneous outburst it can’t be predicted.

Shouldn’t the attacks on Somalians in Cape Town over the past two years have alerted you?

They did, I’m saying that. And from an analytical point of view one is looking at that picture and attempting to get on top of it. But you’re dealing with a whole country and innumerable areas and you’re saying: “Okay, we’re monitoring it.”

How closely were you monitoring it?

Very. We and crime intelligence have kept a watch on this and have actually done a very good job.

So you knew that this was likely to happen?

Let’s just say there’s a level of expectation, but in a very broad sense. So you’re then saying that government must accelerate delivery, we must get on top of this enormous backlog …

So you agree that poor service delivery has a lot to do with the violence?

Whatever forces might be exploiting this, they can never gain any real headway in a situation where you don’t have the tinder box. And that’s been accumulating as a result of the migration.

Did you warn government that, given these factors, there was likely to be an eruption of violence?

Every minister in government, including Home Affairs, has been saying that we’re dealing with these kinds of expectations, people are expecting delivery.

Does the violence constitute a national security threat?

It could amount to that. We’re certainly dealing with it as a threat and a possible growing threat ... We will use all powers necessary to restore law and order.

Did your assessments of threats to national security include events in Zimbabwe?

Yes, indeed.

Did you warn government that the situation there would impact on our national security?

President Mbeki has understood that. This is why he and government have been working very hard to try and see a normalisation of that situation.

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